Technical Rough running after head gasket change

[fingers99]

It is in documentation, because it might be useful way to set the timing,
when you haven't special tools, or the easiest way, but not necessarily the best way always.

But they don't even mention the "special tools"!

The 1.2 8v Punto Mk2 motor is the same engine (in all but bore and stroke) to the 1.1 8v MPI lump fitted to the Seicento.

Now, if you're unfortunate enough to have one of the Brazilian engines, or daft enough to have bought the 1.4 8v with VVT, there's a point. Otherwise, you just use the marks and everything is wonderbarful. I've worked on these lumps for more than 10 years!

 

[RollsRoyce]

But they don't even mention the "special tools"!

The 1.2 8v Punto Mk2 motor is the same engine (in all but bore and stroke) to the 1.1 8v MPI lump fitted to the Seicento.

Now, if you're unfortunate enough to have one of the Brazilian engines, or daft enough to have bought the 1.4 8v with VVT, there's a point. Otherwise, you just use the marks and everything is wonderbarful. I've worked on these lumps for more than 10 years!

ok but in Haynes book about Punto 2 they say there are special Fiat tools for timing for 8v engine.
tools numbers 1.860.895.000 and 1.870.823.000 they are used if cannot to find timing marks on engine. first is for crankshaft I guess to screw like sparkplug with rod, another is for camshaft to establish fixed position,
it is mounted near the end of shaft from coils side (mounted to coils bracket, and locking the shaft)

http://www.autoservice-group.com/members/bancadationline/PDF/FI_050_CD.pdf
http://sykes-pickavant.com/downloads/ENGINE%20TIMING.pdf

 

[oldhammer]

ok but in Haynes book about Punto 2 they say there are special Fiat tools for timing for 8v engine.
tools numbers 1.860.895.000 and 1.870.823.000 they are used if cannot to find timing marks on engine. first is for crankshaft I guess to screw like sparkplug with rod, another is for camshaft to establish fixed position,
it is mounted near the end of shaft from coils side (mounted to coils bracket, and locking the shaft)

http://www.autoservice-group.com/members/bancadationline/PDF/FI_050_CD.pdf

That sounds like 16v.

 

[RollsRoyce]

That sounds like 16v.

no, no
for 16v there are different tools
they are
1860985000 for camshafts
and for crankshaft is 1860992000

just type any of those 4 numbers in google search, you will see the images

 

[gabster]

Well,,,, fitted the cleaned injectors, started her up and the idle was about 2000 rpm (guessing cos it doesn't have a rev counter). Blew a cloud of white smoke out the back then started to settle down! I guess the electronics have to adjust to new fuel/air mix? Turned it off for now. Sure I read somewhere on here about ECU and throttle resets,,,, anyway I guess the gummy injector was starving engine of fuel and mix was over fuelling to compensate? With clean injector, on start up, it was still chucking in fuel at the previous rate? Does that make any sense?

 

[RollsRoyce]

Well,,,, fitted the cleaned injectors, started her up and the idle was about 2000 rpm (guessing cos it doesn't have a rev counter). Blew a cloud of white smoke out the back then started to settle down! I guess the electronics have to adjust to new fuel/air mix? Turned it off for now. Sure I read somewhere on here about ECU and throttle resets,,,, anyway I guess the gummy injector was starving engine of fuel and mix was over fuelling to compensate? With clean injector, on start up, it was still chucking in fuel at the previous rate? Does that make any sense?

How to disassemble and clean the injectors and check if it is injecting a fuel ?
I was using FES but I would like to clean and to check physically.
I have rough run of engine, at low revs it is possible to feel a little vibrations.
I think it is due to misfire. Car engineer told me it is just worn or seized piston ring in 1 of the cylinders. But I think all of them are worn.
Anyway I am using my car almost everyday it is using a lot of oil but it works enough reliable to my needs a this time.

 

[darashen]

You can send them off to be ultrsonically cleaned for around £12.50 an injector plus postage. Not realy something you can clean at home. You may even find somewhere local to you where you can get them done the same day so the car would not be off the road for long.

Alternatively get a second hand known good injector and substitute it for each injector in the rail in turn. If the issue then clears up you know the injector you have just replaced is the issue. A second hand injector for a petrol engine should come in at £10 or less and unlike deisel injectors they do not need to be coded to the ECU.

If the engine is idling high it would be more likely that you have an air leak in the intake system allowing air in after the MAF which would then cause the ecu to up the fuel being injected to compensate for the extra air. Whilst this is great for the cylinders getting extra air but it over fuels the other cylinders causing the revs to rise and the engine to run rich.

 

[fingers99]

How to disassemble and clean the injectors and check if it is injecting a fuel ?
I was using FES but I would like to clean and to check physically.
I have rough run of engine, at low revs it is possible to feel a little vibrations.
I think it is due to misfire. Car engineer told me it is just worn or seized piston ring in 1 of the cylinders. But I think all of them are worn.
Anyway I am using my car almost everyday it is using a lot of oil but it works enough reliable to my needs a this time.

If it's burning oil, then compression test (dry and wet) will determine whether the issue is rings/bores or head gasket.

People like to clean injectors, but it's seldom the cause of a misfire.

If you want to, take them out, send them off to be cleaned and calibrated, ask them to supply new O rings.

 

[fingers99]

If the engine is idling high it would be more likely that you have an air leak in the intake system allowing air in after the MAF which would then cause the ecu to up the fuel being injected to compensate for the extra air. Whilst this is great for the cylinders getting extra air but it over fuels the other cylinders causing the revs to rise and the engine to run rich.

Classic inlet air leak. But the car has no MAF, never had. It's a MAP sensor based system.

 

[dc2014]

Had a similar problem turned out a place had skimmed head whilst it still had some corrosion allowing compression leak between cylinders and i had to have it welded up and redone all work myself timing is really easy on the 8v pretty hard to mess up

 

[jforster91]

This may seem a little off but have you tried the connections from the plug leads to the plugs and the coil packs?

Does the car "surge" (hesitant when accelerating poss splutter)

Could also be a coil pack problem.

I had the 1.2 8v with the same symptoms but didn't have any engine work done and one of the coil packs were faulty

"just an idea"