General Rear Bump Stops

[Jodsclass]

Hi Everyone.

Got a problem on our ageing panda. Both rear suspension bump stops have now rusted out. Can't replace because the metal dome they push into has rusted away. I can remove them, but obviously they are supposed to be there in case the suspension bottoms out.

Are they strictly necessary for an MOT, and what are the repair options for this? The car is great otherwise, but underbody corrosion keeps needing little repairs & I'm wondering if I'm entering trigger's broom territory with this ageing panda now.

 

[irc]

I've had 2 or 3 with this problem lately. The bottom of the bump stop turret rusts out, leaving a big hole rather than the small one for the bump stop.
Without a bump stop you may well end up with a busted damper, as the beam can move higher than the damper can handle. However, they do seem to be able to pass MOTs like this (although not if I am preparing them!)
The first one I repaired using a couple of turrets I had salvaged from a scrap Panda. (It appeared to be the only rust damage on the car anywhere).
However, I can't see a good reason why a simple metal plate won't be just as good.
Not a hard job, and the damper top bush is usually knackered anyway, so would be partially dismantled anyway.

 

[porta]

Which axle? Omega, live, live 4x4?

 

[Jodsclass]

I think it's the live axle. It’s a standard 54 plate dynamic, but not 100%. Exactly the same situation as @irc , but the rot is worse for sure.

 

[porta]

I think it's the live axle. It’s a standard 54 plate dynamic, but not 100%. Exactly the same situation as @irc , but the rot is worse for sure.

Whoops, thought we were talking classic 141 panda!
Anything can be welded up, the trick is to cut out to clean solid metal rather than patching

 

[DaveMcT]

Cutting turrets off a scrapped car is really the best option. These can be stitch welded to the old turrets after the rusty area has been cut off. Then fit Febi bump stops sold for the Fiat Coupe. They are low cost and protect the shocks without destroying the suspension travel.
Obviously, fully prepare and paint the repair. Also soak the inside with anti rust wax or you’ll be doing it again in 18months.

 

[Jodsclass]

Does anyone know a scrapyard/breaker who will cut them off & send them? Welding is not my forte, so I’d be getting someone else to do the actual welding.

 

[DaveMcT]

You will have to phone around the eBay scrapper companies. Finding a phone number can involve some sifting but it’s usually there somewhere or a name you can Google.

 

[koalar]

Absolutely required

There not a simple rubber stop as in cars from the past

The elastomer bump stop is used as a spring medium and often becomes part of suspension


As per @irc plate and drill will be simplest and cheapest option in most cases

 

[koalar]

Does anyone know a scrapyard/breaker who will cut them off & send them? Welding is not my forte, so I’d be getting someone else to do the actual welding.

Most breakers will not be willing to do this any more. 5-10 years ago no problem

Those that do will cost an arm and a leg


It’s part of these 51706918

However if it’s a common failure no doubt one of the repair panel companies will supply no doubt

 

[Jodsclass]

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm actually considering cutting my losses and buying a newer panda or 500. I’ve been dealing with some health issues for the last year, making it more difficult to get underneath the car & get things done. This morning, the front driver's side suspension strut has failed. Oil everywhere and absolutely no shock absorption. Starting to feel like it's always something & the corrosion is a constant battle here in Cornwall. Be sad to let it go, but I just don't have the energy at the moment to put everything right.

 

[koalar]

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm actually considering cutting my losses and buying a newer panda or 500. I’ve been dealing with some health issues for the last year, making it more difficult to get underneath the car & get things done. This morning, the front driver's side suspension strut has failed. Oil everywhere and absolutely no shock absorption. Starting to feel like it's always something & the corrosion is a constant battle here in Cornwall. Be sad to let it go, but I just don't have the energy at the moment to put everything right.

Probably depends on which road fund tax bracket it’s in

£100 a year saving soon adds up.


Assuming it just a plate you can probably get it done for around £50 plus VAT.

 

[DaveMcT]

Fancy newer cars mean fancy costs to go with them. Pandas need maintenance like any other car. Fix the struts/dampers for the costs of one or two loan repayments and you are back to rent/mortgage free driving. Obviously this doesn't work so well if the car body is getting hit by tin worm, but Panda is no worse than anything else and they all get hit by road salt.

 

[Jodsclass]

Hi Everyone.

I just want to thank you all for the help & support on the fiat panda over the years, especially with this issue. We decided to buy a newer fiat as I'm less able to do some of the work that needs doing at the moment & have a lot of hospital appointments to attend (long story, but I've got nerve damage in both arms, so jobs I'd normally be able to do no problem are currently impossible). We decided to go for a few years old Fiat 500s & take delivery of it on Wednesday. I'll be over on the 500 forum for sure & we haven't decided if we will keep & repair the panda or sell it on for someone else to finish the jobs required on it.

Truly, thank you all for the help in the 8 years we've owned this panda already.

And here are a couple of pics of the new (to us) fiat in the family.

 

[rmjbn1]

Well, sorry to hear of the demise of your Panda, but enjoy your 500
And thank you for the warning about these bump stop turrets.
Our 2004 Panda is happily pretty rust-free - I want to do what I can to keep it that way now I live by the coast.
Presumably it's possible to prise the bump stops out of the turrets to squirt some Dinitrol in before those small holes turn into big holes?

 

[Jodsclass]

Well, sorry to hear of the demise of your Panda, but enjoy your 500
And thank you for the warning about these bump stop turrets.
Our 2004 Panda is happily pretty rust-free - I want to do what I can to keep it that way now I live by the coast.
Presumably it's possible to prise the bump stops out of the turrets to squirt some Dinitrol in before those small holes turn into big holes?

I'd definitely check your bump stops & prevent rather than cure. I'm not sure how easily the rubber ones will remove, depending on age you may find the small plug that holds them in will tear. Furthermore, I have a feeling that our boiler flue has added to the rot on our panda. The condensation comes out of the side of our house right into the path of the rear of the car. I expect in the cold months, it has condensed on the cold metal & sped up corrosion. If they are in good shape, just keep an eye on them.

The panda is taxed & MOT'd until September, so I think we will keep hold of it & I may be able to tackle the work later in the summer. It has been a great car and only ticked over 100k miles last month.

 

[rmjbn1]

Well, what a coincidence

The right one is still firmly attached, so maybe the worst of the muck on the verge side gets trapped between bump stop and turret and eats the tin away.

I'd been thinking about getting a little arc welder and learning how to weld. Seems now might be a good time.

 

[koalar]

Well, what a coincidence
View attachment 418998
The right one is still firmly attached, so maybe the worst of the muck on the verge side gets trapped between bump stop and turret and eats the tin away.

I'd been thinking about getting a little arc welder and learning how to weld. Seems now might be a good time.

Less skill required to use a MIG

MMA (arc). almost impossible to weld thin sheet

Before buying a welder ask on the mig forum forum if it’s any good. Some make learning very difficult

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well, what a coincidence
View attachment 418998
The right one is still firmly attached, so maybe the worst of the muck on the verge side gets trapped between bump stop and turret and eats the tin away.

I'd been thinking about getting a little arc welder and learning how to weld. Seems now might be a good time.

Wish my spring pans looked as good as yours!

Have you tried welding at all, or are you a complete beginner? If you've no experience, or you haven't done much, can I suggest a MIG? You'll find it much easier for welding almost anything on a car. Indeed unless you are really good with a stick welder (MMA, meaning Manual Metal Arc), you'll just blow holes in everything with one of these. You also need to consider that a cheap, low output, stick welder is usually more difficult to use because cheap welders are often much more difficult to strike the starting arc with because they have low open circuit voltage. Resist also the temptation to just buy the cheapest MIG/MAG you can find because you'll probably get problems with wire feed, cheap torch and other stuff - There's more components to a Mig/Mag than a simple stick welder. I bought a Cebora Pocket Turbo 130 many years ago and it's been very reliable. Also go for a gas shielded type. I find the flux cored wire type more difficult to use on thin metal and don't make anything like as neat a weld. Might be worth considering too whether you will ever want to do more than just weld up bits of cars? You don't need too "meaty" a machine to weld car metal because it's so thin so you want one which can use 0.6mm wire. However, once you get the welding "bug" you may well want to do more. I started off wanting to weld up the wings on my old van but found I enjoyed it so much I've built and repaired so much "stuff" over the years - Motor cycle frames, Horticultural machine chassis, I even built my own small unbraked trailer! and the fact that the Cebora can use both 0.6 and 0.8mm welding wire has allowed me to do all that. By the way, make sure you buy a machine which does not have a permanently live torch. I doubt if there are many now a days which have a permanently live torch but you don't want one.

Something like this: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/135te-turbo-mig-welder/ should fit the bill nicely. It can be dialed back down to quite a low amperage for the thin stuff but still has the "grunt" for the occasional use on thicker stuff. It's probably about as big as you'd want to go on a domestic 3 pin plug though. I can also strongly recommend an automatic arc activated welding helmet which will leave you with both hands to use with the welder and positioning the work piece and make life so much easier.

Lastly. If you have absolutely no experience you'll need to practice with wire and current settings on some scrap metal before you'll be able to make a sound strong weld. Take a look on you tube for how to videos or even better, take some evening classes.

 

[rmjbn1]

Thank you koalar & Jock for your kind & helpful replies - much appreciated

I've witnessed welding plenty enough and always thought I fancy giving it a go, but yes I'd consider myself a complete beginner.

Which I guess is why MMA was advised to me as easiest to pick up, but I'd never stopped to consider it would be unsuited to thin metal. So thank you for putting me on the right path with MIG.

Yes, it would be for mostly use on cars, plus some other projects (but no load-bearing structures). Funnily enough, also a trailer, but a small lightweight one for bicycles (I convert e-bikes in my spare time).

I'm very cautious with any power tools or high voltages or heat - I've seen what can go wrong, and I've only got one hand already so I need to be careful

So I'll make sure to do some proper research, learning and trials before letting myself loose on my unsuspecting Panda.

My thoughts are as @irc suggested, clean up back to sound metal, rustproof and weld a plate with a hole for the bump stop. Unless anyone has some bright ideas?