Technical Panda 4x4 Wheels & Tyres

[Rondine]

I have just got my 10.th Fiat, a 5 month old Panda 4x4 Wild '23. I was surprised that the car had Continental summer tyres (175/65 R 15).
I want to fit alternative wheels with all season or winter tyres as I live in Scotland. I have Fiat 14 inch steel wheels with 175/65 winter tyres,
but reckon these will have too small a diameter.
I also have unused Fiat 14 inch alloys and wonder if these can be used, but using which tyre size ?
I am hesitating buying 15 inch wheels now as I will eventually fit all season tyres to the wheels which are on the car.
( I have too many wheels with winter tyres from past cars which I didn't have time to sell. Dealers are not giving anything for these during trade in
as opposed to the practice in countries requiring winter tyres.}

I am very pleased with my car which has a good infotainment system, but can't understand why Fiat fitted summer tyres and dropped the fog lights.
I am considering fitting some FF100 Hella elliptical fog lights. Does anyone have experience with fitting fog lights ?
I was looking at 4x4 Cross cars, but they were a bit costly. Would have liked the hill descend system on the Cross.
I had a panda 4x4 with a 'fire ' engine in 1990. Pity I didn't hold on to this as I believe there are only about a dozen of these left in the UK.

Good to have just joined the forum.

 

[Twotone2]

Trying to buy winter or all-season tyres at this time of year gets tricky as they tend to be out of stock. When I bought mine, in May I think, to replace those that had worn, loads of stock available
Right now I’m struggling to get one Mich CrossClimate2 to replace one of those May tyres, as I have a nail in it, too close to the edge to be repaired. For now it’s holding pressure!

Aye I’m in two minds wether to give the existing tyres a winter and see how they perform, as we mainly have cold wet winters with the occasional hard frosts and a bit of snow, or just bite the bullet and buy the all seasons tyres now.

 

[Davidbrandx]

Kwikfit are doing them for £369 fitted X four and ATS are £359 X four fitted.

Interestingly my existing tyres, Goodyear Duragrip, are more expensive.

I've just phoned ATS for a bit of advice re keeping the existing tyres, ie selling them on as they've only done about 2500 miles, and the guy said that's not a problem as in they can be reused.

I always thought removed tyres had to be dumped?

No idea if selling them on ebay or wherever would be viable though given that they're pretty specific to Fiat Panda 4X4s.

There is no problem selling 'part worn tyres'; its buyer beware.
You pays your money, make your choice. I've decided on Bridgestone Blizzaks, an online deal at £68 × 5. I've a spare OE wheel purchased on ebay. I'm sticking with OE tyre size 175/65 R15 as any small gain in size is potentially a clearance problem in the absence of being able to go mudplugger.
I am going to install 16mm spacers for a tiny stability gain. I'm not concerned about wheel bearings. They'll need changing eventually.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Aye I’m in two minds wether to give the existing tyres a winter and see how they perform, as we mainly have cold wet winters with the occasional hard frosts and a bit of snow, or just bite the bullet and buy the all seasons tyres now.

Tough call. The tyres may be cheaper in the spring too? But - ‘winter’ tyres should really be called ‘cold weather tyres’. A summer tyre starts to lose grip when temperatures drop, whereas a cold weather tyre becomes more grippy below 7C.

 

[Davidbrandx]

Aye I’m in two minds wether to give the existing tyres a winter and see how they perform, as we mainly have cold wet winters with the occasional hard frosts and a bit of snow, or just bite the bullet and buy the all seasons tyres now.

Bite the bullet, the new ones will see you a good period.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Trying to buy winter or all-season tyres at this time of year gets tricky as they tend to be out of stock. When I bought mine, in May I think, to replace those that had worn, loads of stock available
Right now I’m struggling to get one Mich CrossClimate2 to replace one of those May tyres, as I have a nail in it, too close to the edge to be repaired. For now it’s holding pressure!

Get them repaired by someone who can revulcanise?

 

[Twotone2]

Bite the bullet, the new ones will see you a good period.

Yes they’ll last years so relatively cheap plus it’s my wife’s car and I’d rather she was safe, our drive is treacherous in the winter.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Get them repaired by someone who can revulcanise?

Apparently only a puncture in the central 3/4s of the tyre can be fixed. The nail is right on the very edge. TBH, I’d rather a new tyre - my safety first attitude kicks in with things like this.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Tough call. The tyres may be cheaper in the spring too? But - ‘winter’ tyres should really be called ‘cold weather tyres’. A summer tyre starts to lose grip when temperatures drop, whereas a cold weather tyre becomes more grippy below 7C.

It retains its grip better because it has a higher silica content*, so the margin between winters and summers tips the other way, but it doesn't become gripper iyswim.

* maintaining pliancy

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

It retains its grip better because it has a higher silica content*, so the margin between winters and summers tips the other way, but it doesn't become gripper iyswim.

* maintaining pliancy

Yes, I’ll give you that! But in layman’s terms a winter tyre has more cold weather grip than a summer one.

 

[Twotone2]

Apparently only a puncture in the central 3/4s of the tyre can be fixed. The nail is right on the very edge. TBH, I’d rather a new tyre - my safety first attitude kicks in with things like this.

I drove about with a nail in one of my van’s front tyres for about a year the nail was right in the middle of the tread though and I’ve a portable air compressor on the van (for re inflating boiler expansion vessels) but sometimes it was a bit scary when the tyre was pretty under inflated, not worth the hassle to be honest but it was pure laziness to be honest I just couldn’t be bother going to get another tyre as most of my journy’s are short drives.

 

[Davidbrandx]

I drove about with a nail in one of my van’s front tyres for about a year the nail was right in the middle of the tread though and I’ve a portable air compressor on the van (for re inflating boiler expansion vessels) but sometimes it was a bit scary when the tyre was pretty under inflated, not worth the hassle to be honest but it was pure laziness to be honest I just couldn’t be bother going to get another tyre as most of my journy’s are short drives.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Loads of threads on this.

TA improves in economy (and performance)—mine is way better at 12K miles versus new. I can get upper 40s without too much difficulty these days. Generally 47-48 across a tankful. 50 is achievable on a long run.

But no one should choose the Twinair for economy. Choose it because it's a joy to drive.

They seem to vary somewhat and it depends on how they are driven much more than most cars it seems. I get 44 when driving short trips quite hard. Normally 46 to 50 running locally and 50 is easy to achive. I have had over 60 on a long run. Putting the winter tyres on reduces MPG significantly. My last 4x4TA was much less good and was givng no more tha 33 locally and it was a substantial effort to get it to 50mpg. Its somewhat like the effect of teh ECO button. This car is quite happy to run in eco and is a good match for teh 1.2 in that. With ECO off its

Aye I’m in two minds wether to give the existing tyres a winter and see how they perform, as we mainly have cold wet winters with the occasional hard frosts and a bit of snow, or just bite the bullet and buy the all seasons tyres now.

I would wait and see unless you are off the beaten track or in the north the the UK, as you may be chasing fashion. I know that really for my use in Norfolk It is not really necessary,so I would use up the ones you have and then make the change. When my summer tyres are worn out I may consider all seasons. It is a pain keep swapping twice a year, but I suppose we all dont want to be embarassed with a 4x4 stuck in a muddy puddle or half an inch of snow. I suspect the car will get you through most things on its normal tyres though. A few sets of snow socks would be cheaper.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Emissions.

Welcome to the forum.

Well WLTP fuel consumptio for sure but it amounts to the same thing.

 

[Twotone2]

I would wait and see unless you are off the beaten track or in the north the the UK, as you may be chasing fashion. I know that really for my use in Norfolk It is not really necessary,so I would use up the ones you have and then make the change. When my summer tyres are worn out I may consider all seasons. It is a pain keep swapping twice a year, but I suppose we all dont want to be embarassed with a 4x4 stuck in a muddy puddle or half an inch of snow. I suspect the car will get you through most things on its normal tyres though. A few sets of snow socks would be cheaper.

Glasgow, south east quite high up so it can get pretty cold and with occasionally pretty severe frosts plus heavy snow at times but you're talking maybe one year out of six for heavy show.

I usually buy about six 25kg bags of salt for the winter every year and can use up a bag on a particular frosty morning.

No doubt this winter will be a hard one cause I'm prevaricating about tyres

BTW, we had temperatures of minus 24 back in 1994, the diesel in my van froze back then, total chaos too.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Apparently only a puncture in the central 3/4s of the tyre can be fixed. The nail is right on the very edge. TBH, I’d rather a new tyre - my safety first attitude kicks in with things like this.

Revulcanisation can legally fix punctures outside that centre zone. Obviously if the carcass is damaged then it's not a repair (in either area) but if standard puncture it's as safe as any other repair. Routinely done for agricultural and industrial vehicles because of the value of the tyres, less so for cars, but as their price continues to increase, I think we'll see it more and more.

Trouble is, Kwik National Tyre Fix Centre will never tell customers about it!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Aye I’m thinking about going for the vector 3s not cheap though nearly £400 for four tyres.

Here’s my existing tyres review

Goodyear DuraGrip

Will the Goodyear DuraGrip suit your car? Find the best tyre for your car read 16 reviews for the Goodyear DuraGrip and compare to other Premium Comfort tyres at tyre reviews

www.tyrereviews.com

Our 319 2WD is on Duragrip 185 65 x 15. They are an OK tyre nearly good but not better than this, but I feel they have nothing in reserve. Grip is OK but by virtue of the extra width only.
Our 169 has had two sets of Efficient Grip (Goodyears) - I was unimpressed and changed to Continentals which are much superior in all conditions and steering and roadholding are way better.
I have only tried the Continental M+S as fitted on my 2017 Panda and the Michelin Alpins on my Waze Cross.
Continental M+S were quiet and were good in snow but definitely not good in the summer verging on poor, Steering response was wooly and terminal understeer was experienced on a sharp bend going uphill on just damp roads. I would not buy them again. The Alpin4 tyres are very noisy by comparrison but I have no quibble with anything else.
Michelin Alpin4s are wearing very well, and in wet, snow and ice have are excellent grip, better than any other tyre I have ever used. In the dry I have no quibbles and I cant feel much less performance than the Contintal Eco 6 it runs in the summer.
The Conti 6 does well all round but wears way to fast for my liking so Im not sure I would buy again. I estimate I will get an absolute max of 20,000 miles from them. Poor oin a Panda. They were top rated tyres in 2019 so the Michelin Alpin4s do well to stand comparrison for dry grip.
I have tried the original Michelin Cross Climates and they were very ineffective in snow and had poor cornering in very wet conditions. They were good in the dry. Not bad overall but I wouldnt buy them again soon, whereas the Alpin4 I would buy again without question
The Cross climates seem to have come a long way in the last 7 years so may be much better now.

If I was settling on one type of tyre I would forego the economy and go for winters / m+s and take the off road advantage - even though I rarely use it. I dont want to need assistance ever! I feel the all season tyress may have too many of the off road tyre disadvantages without enough redeeming features to warrant the cost but accept they may well be a good option.
What I would prefer is a unidirectional tyre so they can be swapped if replacing a pair for example.

When the 2WD car needs tyres I may up spec to all seasons so there is less difference in the winter and would probably choose Goodyear Vectors.

I remember when I had a company car the firm got a no quibble agreement for tyres, I was doing 60 to 100K a year. The lease company was heard to say someting rude when it had gone through 16 tyres in two years and I went back for some more. I tried a lot of makes but ended up settling on Michelin Pilots in that I have found Mich tend to be consistently good. I tried Hankook tyres on a company Hyundai and wouldnt go there with my own money even though they are reasonably rated. Just too expensive for what they are. So much depends on how many miles you do, and how you drive as well as where you drive. I have driven a long way on Bridgestone tyres and my 2003 Vectra did 53000 on the front when I threw them out at 3.5mm the rears did 72 when I left the company they were still on 4mm+ My Bravo did 80K on the rear with bridgestone and arpund 40K on the front. Changing to continetal tyres improved grip especially in the wet but with ruinous wear rates. The lessons I have learned is you get what you pay for, and its worth looking for tyres that have better fuel use ratings, Also cheap tyres are more difficult to balance and maintain balance so may not end up being cheaper in the end. Never buy tyres made in countries with different climates than ours or you will nbe disappointed.
Sometimes useage etc make budget brands more sensible as there is no point paying top prices if you drive slow and steady, and only do low miles, as you will not get your moneys worth out of top brands.
Other makes
Pirelli no thanks for our conditions. Although my brother rates the Range Rover ones.
Dunlop no full stop.
Avon just wear too quick.
Matador No no no. DItto Esso.

Big Tre chain sellers are BAD value compared with independant suppliers. BArgain hard as often you can drive the price down a bit. There is a good percentage profit in the tyres. One of my employers could sell them at 35% discount on my best price and still smile at me!

 

[alan1200gs]

One other alternative that may be worth considering is the Michelin Latitude Cross in 185/65 15. I have a Panda Cross (2021) that I keep at our house in Greece. We live up about 600 metres of dirt track that can get interesting in the winter when the rain can wash out some of the soil between the rocky bits! The island is also full of unmade roads and trails some of which the Panda simply makes less hassle and a few of which do test the limits of the car.

The car came from factory on 175/65 15 (Goodyear Duragrip) which were pretty horrible on and off road. I wanted something that was still competent on road as, objectively, most of our miles are on road, but which increased the off road capability so we can have fun exploring. The Latitude Cross is subjectively better on road both quieter and generally more composed than the Duragrip and with no appreciable difference in fuel consumption. I' sure there are much better on-road choices but they'd be much worse off road.

The car consistently does around 7.5-7.6 l/100km. Pretty rubbish for 875cc, but given the very hilly usage, lots of low speed driving and the off-road mix I'll take it.

The 185/65 15s fit just fine, although at full lock there's not much space left to the arches. The standard steel wheels on the car have negative offset of 30 which seems unusual from what I find online. It's certainly a pain trying to buy another one (that I want as a spare for the roof when we go off-roading - after an awkward puncture episode recently that saw the space saver used in ways i'm sure Fiat never intended) as they seem rather more rare than the similar Fiat steel wheel with a negative offset of 35. I have now tracked some down in Italy so I just need to get it shipped to Greece when we're next there.

The tyres aren't winter marked but many reports suggest they do OK in snow and anyway, snow is rather unusual on our island unless you go the top (1100m) in mid-winter. We've only had snow at our house (which is 300m above sea level) twice in 10 years and the worse event was in 2017 when we had about 15cm and it lasted 3-4 days because we had a whole week of -4C weather - very unusual. There are quite a few sipes in the tread too which suggests that they might work OK in snow - but I have no personal experience - yet!

Off road though they're a revelation. Along with a 15mm spacer lift the car is far more assured on rocks and soil/mud and it's pretty unstoppable as long as you're aware of the ground clearance limits. Of course the spacer plus the tyre change has added 21mm to the clearance and every little helps.

As always any tyre is a compromise. This one suits our usage patterns and gets us to places that are genuinely only accessible by a competent 4x4 - the photo was at the end of about 8km of soft road / trail with several tricky bits and took us to about 800m above sea level.

And the combination of the tyre size, tread pattern and the small lift do make it look more purposeful - and looks do matter right?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

One other alternative that may be worth considering is the Michelin Latitude Cross in 185/65 15. I have a Panda Cross (2021) that I keep at our house in Greece. We live up about 600 metres of dirt track that can get interesting in the winter when the rain can wash out some of the soil between the rocky bits! The island is also full of unmade roads and trails some of which the Panda simply makes less hassle and a few of which do test the limits of the car.

The car came from factory on 175/65 15 (Goodyear Duragrip) which were pretty horrible on and off road. I wanted something that was still competent on road as, objectively, most of our miles are on road, but which increased the off road capability so we can have fun exploring. The Latitude Cross is subjectively better on road both quieter and generally more composed than the Duragrip and with no appreciable difference in fuel consumption. I' sure there are much better on-road choices but they'd be much worse off road.

The car consistently does around 7.5-7.6 l/100km. Pretty rubbish for 875cc, but given the very hilly usage, lots of low speed driving and the off-road mix I'll take it.

The 185/65 15s fit just fine, although at full lock there's not much space left to the arches. The standard steel wheels on the car have negative offset of 30 which seems unusual from what I find online. It's certainly a pain trying to buy another one (that I want as a spare for the roof when we go off-roading - after an awkward puncture episode recently that saw the space saver used in ways i'm sure Fiat never intended) as they seem rather more rare than the similar Fiat steel wheel with a negative offset of 35. I have now tracked some down in Italy so I just need to get it shipped to Greece when we're next there.

The tyres aren't winter marked but many reports suggest they do OK in snow and anyway, snow is rather unusual on our island unless you go the top (1100m) in mid-winter. We've only had snow at our house (which is 300m above sea level) twice in 10 years and the worse event was in 2017 when we had about 15cm and it lasted 3-4 days because we had a whole week of -4C weather - very unusual. There are quite a few sipes in the tread too which suggests that they might work OK in snow - but I have no personal experience - yet!

Off road though they're a revelation. Along with a 15mm spacer lift the car is far more assured on rocks and soil/mud and it's pretty unstoppable as long as you're aware of the ground clearance limits. Of course the spacer plus the tyre change has added 21mm to the clearance and every little helps.

As always any tyre is a compromise. This one suits our usage patterns and gets us to places that are genuinely only accessible by a competent 4x4 - the photo was at the end of about 8km of soft road / trail with several tricky bits and took us to about 800m above sea level.

And the combination of the tyre size, tread pattern and the small lift do make it look more purposeful - and looks do matter right?

The wheels on the Cross models are the same width and the same diameter as the ‘normal’ 4x4s, but the rims are offset 5mm further out from the mounting bolts (ET30 vs ET35). This means they can take the 185 width tyres without fouling on the subframes (185/65r15 was the standard-fit tyre on the Cross until about 2017 when they started putting narrower summer tyres on the same rims to get a better economy rating). The Latitude Cross isn’t available in the 175 width…

 

[alan1200gs]

The wheels on the Cross models are the same width and the same diameter as the ‘normal’ 4x4s, but the rims are offset 5mm further out from the mounting bolts (ET30 vs ET35). This means they can take the 185 width tyres without fouling on the subframes (185/65r15 was the standard-fit tyre on the Cross until about 2017 when they started putting narrower summer tyres on the same rims to get a better economy rating). The Latitude Cross isn’t available in the 175 width…

Indeed. You need the ET30 to fit the 185. Or of course you could always run a 5mm spacer to achieve the same objective. I'm not generally a fan of spacers but 5mm is pretty insignificant - just check the length of the bolts. And given the long history of 185s on these cars I see no downsides - and in the case of the Latitude Cross it's the only way to do it as the 185/65 15 is the smallest Latitude Cross made.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Indeed. You need the ET30 to fit the 185. Or of course you could always run a 5mm spacer to achieve the same objective. I'm not generally a fan of spacers but 5mm is pretty insignificant - just check the length of the bolts. And given the long history of 185s on these cars I see no downsides - and in the case of the Latitude Cross it's the only way to do it as the 185/65 15 is the smallest Latitude Cross made.

That is what I am running on our 4x4. Standard bolts are too short though, so budget for those too.