Technical Panda 4x4 Wheels & Tyres

[Rondine]

I have just got my 10.th Fiat, a 5 month old Panda 4x4 Wild '23. I was surprised that the car had Continental summer tyres (175/65 R 15).
I want to fit alternative wheels with all season or winter tyres as I live in Scotland. I have Fiat 14 inch steel wheels with 175/65 winter tyres,
but reckon these will have too small a diameter.
I also have unused Fiat 14 inch alloys and wonder if these can be used, but using which tyre size ?
I am hesitating buying 15 inch wheels now as I will eventually fit all season tyres to the wheels which are on the car.
( I have too many wheels with winter tyres from past cars which I didn't have time to sell. Dealers are not giving anything for these during trade in
as opposed to the practice in countries requiring winter tyres.}

I am very pleased with my car which has a good infotainment system, but can't understand why Fiat fitted summer tyres and dropped the fog lights.
I am considering fitting some FF100 Hella elliptical fog lights. Does anyone have experience with fitting fog lights ?
I was looking at 4x4 Cross cars, but they were a bit costly. Would have liked the hill descend system on the Cross.
I had a panda 4x4 with a 'fire ' engine in 1990. Pity I didn't hold on to this as I believe there are only about a dozen of these left in the UK.

Good to have just joined the forum.

 

[porta]

Got to say, the Rikens are made by Michelin and, at the price we’re a no brainier
The 169 climbing got vredesteins on, which I was very happ with, then some really aggressive kingpins wehn it became the ‘light’ farm car
The 169 cross got some standard continentals but only because they were a good deal at the time.
I’d like to replace the 312 Cross with some of the Riken AT but they don’t do it that size, which is a shame as I really like them.

 

[Rondine]

A lot of useful information in these replies.

I was hoping to use my Panda 4x4 on very minor roads where after snow-fall I might find no one has driven
- so winter tyres are right. In the 1990s I loved driving my Mark 1 Panda 4x4 ( which came with winter tyres )
in virgin snow, and only got stuck if snow was so deep that the car was sitting with the floor 'pan' on the snow
with the wheels spinning. Snow drifts behind stone walls the main obstacle.

Surely a knobly winter tyre pattern gives better traction if you drive off road on a stony surface, than the recent
'chevron' style pattern on all season tyres.

In my native Norway where there is more snow, tyre web-sites may say 'not suitable for winter use' for all season tyres,
even if they would be legal with the mountain peak M & S symbol.

We have been running our Smart Forfour 0.9, rear engine, rear wheel drive, on Vredestein Quatrac 5 all season tyres
and it is only just O.K. on snow. The newer Quatrac tyre scores higher in test.

A two-wheel drive car with winter tyres is better on snow than a 4 wheel drive SUV without.
Most cars I see that I have seen had a mishap in the snow have been the above SUV's which have given their drivers false
confidence. The two- wheel drive also has 4 wheel braking.
If you have a well shod car limit your speed with a car behind you, or you may be rear ended when breaking
if the car behind you isn't equipped. Talking from experience.




It

 

[Panda IIs]

A lot of useful information in these replies.

I was hoping to use my Panda 4x4 on very minor roads where after snow-fall I might find no one has driven
- so winter tyres are right. In the 1990s I loved driving my Mark 1 Panda 4x4 ( which came with winter tyres )
in virgin snow, and only got stuck if snow was so deep that the car was sitting with the floor 'pan' on the snow
with the wheels spinning. Snow drifts behind stone walls the main obstacle.

Surely a knobly winter tyre pattern gives better traction if you drive off road on a stony surface, than the recent
'chevron' style pattern on all season tyres.

In my native Norway where there is more snow, tyre web-sites may say 'not suitable for winter use' for all season tyres,
even if they would be legal with the mountain peak M & S symbol.

We have been running our Smart Forfour 0.9, rear engine, rear wheel drive, on Vredestein Quatrac 5 all season tyres
and it is only just O.K. on snow. The newer Quatrac tyre scores higher in test.

A two-wheel drive car with winter tyres is better on snow than a 4 wheel drive SUV without.
Most cars I see that I have seen had a mishap in the snow have been the above SUV's which have given their drivers false
confidence. The two- wheel drive also has 4 wheel braking.
If you have a well shod car limit your speed with a car behind you, or you may be rear ended when breaking
if the car behind you isn't equipped. Talking from experience.




It

Totally agree; I sourced a LHD Golf here in the UK for use in Slovakia (guaranteed winter snow plus winter tyres mandatory) I found a set of conti winter tyres on steel wheels here, thinking they will "tick the box" but was otherwise sceptical of any difference. How wrong was I? Total convert and would recommend any true winter tyre for genuine winter conditions.

 

[WitleyPanda]

I have just got my 10.th Fiat, a 5 month old Panda 4x4 Wild '23. I was surprised that the car had Continental summer tyres (175/65 R 15).
I want to fit alternative wheels with all season or winter tyres as I live in Scotland. I have Fiat 14 inch steel wheels with 175/65 winter tyres,
but reckon these will have too small a diameter.
I also have unused Fiat 14 inch alloys and wonder if these can be used, but using which tyre size ?
I am hesitating buying 15 inch wheels now as I will eventually fit all season tyres to the wheels which are on the car.
( I have too many wheels with winter tyres from past cars which I didn't have time to sell. Dealers are not giving anything for these during trade in
as opposed to the practice in countries requiring winter tyres.}

I am very pleased with my car which has a good infotainment system, but can't understand why Fiat fitted summer tyres and dropped the fog lights.
I am considering fitting some FF100 Hella elliptical fog lights. Does anyone have experience with fitting fog lights ?
I was looking at 4x4 Cross cars, but they were a bit costly. Would have liked the hill descend system on the Cross.
I had a panda 4x4 with a 'fire ' engine in 1990. Pity I didn't hold on to this as I believe there are only about a dozen of these left in the UK.

Good to have just joined the forum.

Summer/road tyres fitted as this improves mpg and shipped as compliant to the tests. ( Toyota even previously supplied Hi-lux to Scottish power, Welsh Water and others with alloy wheels and highway all season. They did not even have a certified steel wheel for a AT2 style wider knobbly.)

 

[Davidbrandx]

What would you experienced Pandanistas recommend for me? I want to buy a set of steel wheels shod with mudpluggers for my 312 4x4 MJ? It's currently running 15 " alloys. Would a 16" steel fit/make sense?
Can you recommend a supplier? Many of the 4x4 wheel specialists dont cater for our beloved Panda! Reading through this thread, I realise there's a lot of great knowledge out there!

 

[Panda IIs]

What would you experienced Pandanistas recommend for me? I want to buy a set of steel wheels shod with mudpluggers for my 312 4x4 MJ? It's currently running 15 " alloys. Would a 16" steel fit/make sense?
Can you recommend a supplier? Many of the 4x4 wheel specialists dont cater for our beloved Panda! Reading through this thread, I realise there's a lot of great knowledge out there!

Based on my experience (noted above) the winter tyres I have run on smaller diameter than the summer alloys. This facilitates a higher profile and narrower tread (which I guess improves grip)? My previous comment was for a Golf which has 16" alloys with 205/55 tyres winters are 15" 185/65 tyres which (I haven't checked) probably gives similar running diameter. Based on this I'd expect replacing 15" alloys with 16" steels plus a winter tyre causing clearance issues. Width of wheel is off course relevant.

Here you go; Slovak post "van" zooming in 175/65 R15

 

[Bonefish Blues]

You can go to R15 185/65 but you may be unlucky and get some rubbing that needs 5mm spacers on the front wheels to get the correct offset. Ask me how I know!

 

[Davidbrandx]

I also have a Discovery and yes, surprise, surprise, my summer wheels are R19 and winter, R17 with higher profile m&s tyres. So, perhaps, I stick at R15, same rim width and same profile but winter tyres. Next question, can you recommend a supplier for some stylish steels, same offset and studs?

 

[Panda IIs]

I also have a Discovery and yes, surprise, surprise, my summer wheels are R19 and winter, R17 with higher profile m&s tyres. So, perhaps, I stick at R15, same rim width and same profile but winter tyres. Next question, can you recommend a supplier for some stylish steels, same offset and studs?

Well I quite like the ones on the Post van above! These are OEM, steel and have been around for a while so you may be able to pick some second hand ones and refurbish them if/as required? If you're off-roading them you don't want anything too shiny shiny, or is it faux off road?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

What would you experienced Pandanistas recommend for me? I want to buy a set of steel wheels shod with mudpluggers for my 312 4x4 MJ? It's currently running 15 " alloys. Would a 16" steel fit/make sense?
Can you recommend a supplier? Many of the 4x4 wheel specialists dont cater for our beloved Panda! Reading through this thread, I realise there's a lot of great knowledge out there!

One of the challenges is that Fiat use an unusual wheel nut spacing. Specifically, the PCD ( the circle that passes though the bolt centres) is 98mm, but most 4-stud wheels are 100. Subtle but important difference.

As others will tell you, tyre width is a problem. The front rails of the 4x4 subframe already have a bit cut away to prevent the tyres fouling but the limit is 175 tyres on the standard wheel. The Cross wheels are slightly offset outwards allowing the 185 tyre. That also gives 6mm more ground clearance under the body. For mud or snow m, narrower is often better than wider.

I did think you needed a 15” wheel to clear the front disc callipers, it now believe that’s not the case.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I'm going to put a different view that tyre pattern and compound is more important than 10mm width either way. Similarly if off road, you can't spoof clearance, it's something you've either got or you haven't!

 

[Davidbrandx]

I'm going to put a different view that tyre pattern and compound is more important than 10mm width either way. Similarly if off road, you can't spoof clearance, it's something you've either got or you haven't!

I entirely get this, too. So much tyre choice though! What specific tyre would you select for off road priority?

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I entirely get this, too. So much tyre choice though! What specific tyre would you select for off road priority?

Unfortunately, unless someone knows better, I don't think that in 15s, either 175 or 185 you can get the really aggressive off-road patterns like Grabbers and the like, so whilst I fit Vredestein all seasons on mine, and Hankook all seasons on our XC70* if I were purely looking to prioritise off road then I'd be looking at a full winter with widely spread tread blocks. The Kormorans below caught my eye as an example (a Michelin brand nowadays)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m95b0s1486p158457/Kormoran_Tyres_Winter_Snow_Car_Kormoran_Snow_175_65_R15_84T_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_C_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_70dB

*Although I rather inadvertently ended up green laning in the Volvo last week down a very rutted and muddy track and the Hankooks tackled it without issue.

ETA
Something is nagging me to say that someone was using quite an aggressive pattern. I'll have a search tomorrow as I'll have picked that up on here.

 

[Panda IIs]

I searched 175/65 R15 off-road tires (Note US spelling) and found allsorts including these which might be a bit noisy on the road? It suggests available via e-bay if so then the world is your oyster it seems! Lots of gravel tyres available in this size so it must be a favourite for rally or autocross?

 

[Panda IIs]

I followed the link; slightly disturbed that it says "retread" but that maybe something lost in translation - Polish site it seems. 259 Zloty is just south of 51GBP with today's exchange rate. If you ordered in pairs you should avoid any duty charges (I believe)!

 

[Davidbrandx]

I followed the link; slightly disturbed that it says "retread" but that maybe something lost in translation - Polish site it seems. 259 Zloty is just south of 51GBP with today's exchange rate. If you ordered in pairs you should avoid any duty charges (I believe)!

View attachment 432550

I know what I'll be doing this weekend!

 

[Panda IIs]

I know what I'll be doing this weekend!

Did you see these on the Italian 4x4 specialist site you were given on the other thread (for lift kit etc)? Unfortunately suggests currently out of stock (probably because tis the season!).

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Thanks for searching. There was me looking mainstream in the UK

They look perfect if offroad's everything.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I followed the link; slightly disturbed that it says "retread" but that maybe something lost in translation - Polish site it seems. 259 Zloty is just south of 51GBP with today's exchange rate. If you ordered in pairs you should avoid any duty charges (I believe)!

View attachment 432550

I might be wrong, but have a hunch that the base tyre here probably is 175/65x15 but onto which they cast (ie remould or retread) the knobbly pattern which must make the tyre bigger (taller). There is already very little spare space in the wheel arches - the front chassis rail and at the rear, all round, to fit much more tyre in there. (BTW, I wonder if you can gain space at the back by removing the plastic arch liner?)

 

[Davidbrandx]

I think you're right about the retreads being too big. Standard wheels/tyres are almost an interference fit at the front, back of the arch. However, the Italian site specifies Panda.
I have a mate who speaks Italian and we can call them to see if theres a deal to be done for a 175/65 R15 steel wheel/tyre package plus dampers/struts and springs in one delivery. Thanks for your engagement with this guys. I'll keep you posted although I think its not going to be a quick job.
Bizarrely I'm also struggling with my factory flush roof rails to source roof bars. All the apparently specific Panda ones ("fits your car") stipulate suitable for open rails only. And I want black ones... don't really want to respray but could.