Technical Panda 2013 4x4 juddering back end

[Fawcedani]

Yours does sound more CV joint related, more one side than another, tighter the turn the worse it is? Has a drive shaft been disturbed for any reason, maybe a CV boot for an MOT or something?

No it's not had any work dome recently... last time it was in the garage was Mot time last November, passed with no issues

 

[Fawcedani]

And the cv boots look fine, no splitting or leaks around the boots.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Have you jacked up each wheel and tried turning them in both directions seeing if this shows anythging. like wheel bearing or differential noises. In normal use remember, its only really driving the front wheels. I would recheck engine and gearbox mounts and also consider if the clutch is the cause as its sometimes difficult to tell which end and which corner is giving the trouble. Get someone else to drive and sit in the back and see if it is worse in there.

 

[Jamie KC]

Had the rear wheels balanced earlier, made no difference.

Rear pads and discs do need changing, and is booked in for that in 10 days.

So I'm still none the wiser. Its not a banging, it's juddering, as if it's struggling at the back end.... I'd imagine it's either rear diff, prop shaft or drive shaft.

I have had a look under the car, nothing obvious to see, no damage or movement anywhere.

Does the frequency of the juddering sensation start increasing if you weave wide slow turns left and right and then ease back to less frequent when you resume going straight?

 

[Fawcedani]

Does the frequency of the juddering sensation start increasing if you weave wide slow turns left and right and then ease back to less frequent when you resume going straight?

Yeah it does seem to be fractionally worse when cornering at low speeds. also going uphill is worse then decending.

But it does do it on the straight too.

 

[Jamie KC]

Yeah it does seem to be fractionally worse when cornering at low speeds. also going uphill is worse then decending.

But it does do it on the straight too.

It does sound suspiciously similar to the issue I had. Mine took a little longer to manifest, more like 30mins of driving. Once it started it was most obvious sub 20mph, whether that was under acceleration or slowing down. It was most pronounced when pulling out of a junction/onto a roundabout. It happened in neutral as well as in gear. It happened in a straight line, but was exacerbated by weaving. When coasting in a straight line a slight tap on the brakes would quieten it for a few secs before it resumed.

It wont be tyres, the rears are in good condition, plenty of grip, even wear. I did get some brand new ones for the front a few days back, (the problem persisted before I got the front tyres)

Now, I’m not saying it is the tyres, but given the above it still could be. With mine I believe the problem was likely to do with different circumference front to rear. Left to right difference is accounted for in the differentials, but front to rear isn’t. You may have had uneven front to rear wear before changing the front tyres (assume fronts were worn enough to warrant changing but rears weren’t), and this has not been solved by changing the front tyres as they are still mismatched to the rear.

It would be a bold (and costly) decision to make to change the rear tyres too, but if you were going to do it it needs to be soon, so the fronts don’t have any significant wear on them to make them a different circumference again.

If it solves it you don’t have to spend time looking elsewhere on the car. If it doesn’t solve it then you’ve spent money and STILL need to spend the time investigating.

Tricky…

 

[bugsymike]

Re tyres on modern 4x4 I heard of an Audi Quattro owner that had an unrepairable puncture and had to replace all four tyres at a cost of around £1K due to the computer controlled traction system not liking the different rolling circumferences.
I don't think it was a "fastfit" tyre depot on bonus

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Re tyres on modern 4x4 I heard of an Audi Quattro owner that had an unrepairable puncture and had to replace all four tyres at a cost of around £1K due to the computer controlled traction system not liking the different rolling circumferences.
I don't think it was a "fastfit" tyre depot on bonus

It's not just the rolling size, but the rolling resistance as well. Ideally needs same make and model of tyres on all four wheels to keep things happy (and, i might say, safe too). The 4x4 Panda does need to have its tyres swapped back to front to even things out now and again - although mine tends to wear them quite evenly, unlike two wheel drives cars we have.

 

[Fawcedani]

Still none the wiser..... Although at 10years old, and 94,000 percy the panda is knocking on....

Just put a deposit down on a 2022 panda 4x4!

Still aiming to get the old panda sorted before selling it on.

 

[Monster35]

Did you sort this. It's happening on mine. I had it up on ramps on Friday and I believe its the central uj on the propshaft having excessive play. It looks like its ruined a newish central bearing rubber as well. I'm getting a new propshaft fitted Wednesday. I'll let you know if it fixes it.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Take the prop shaft off and try it?

 

[tomdee]

Take the prop shaft off and try it?

I did this when I had the vibration problem and it didn't solve it. The difference was that there was an additional noise caused by the rotation of the loose rear differential (without the shaft fitted).
As I wrote before, the problem was related to a dry CV joint. This only happens when hot, probably due to the expansion of the materials. It is more evident at low speed (1st and 2nd gear) and when climbing, where you can even feel a slight vibration in the steering wheel until you reach a certain speed.
After a certain point, the vibration starts to appear at 60/70 km/h and becomes unbearable.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Was the cv boot damaged or showing signs of leakage or do you suspect it was not properly lubricated at time of build. Im wondering whether to check mine. I had a renault laguna that had a bad gear change. In the end I did the gearbox oil at 35K. There was no evidence of there being more than a few tablespoonfuls. Amazingly it was fine after being filled properly.

 

[tomdee]

Was the cv boot damaged or showing signs of leakage or do you suspect it was not properly lubricated at time of build. Im wondering whether to check mine. I had a renault laguna that had a bad gear change. In the end I did the gearbox oil at 35K. There was no evidence of there being more than a few tablespoonfuls. Amazingly it was fine after being filled properly.

The boot was not damaged and there were no signs of leakage. Something made it go dry and the solution was to refill it with grease. It was a try and error repair so I believe that there should be other cv going dry or it was just a one-off situation. First step was to remove the prop shaft and it didn't solve.
Panda is 8 years old and + 172K kms. (+106K miles).

 

[Dhirsch]

Hi all, my fiat panda 1.3 diesel 4x4 2013 is having the same issue. Clunking noise at low speeds and low revs especially in gear 2. The noise resolves when at higher speeds (50km+).

I think it's the rear differential as I had the prop shaft replaced.

Did anyone get to the bottom of the problem?
Much appreciated

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Hi all, my fiat panda 1.3 diesel 4x4 2013 is having the same issue. Clunking noise at low speeds and low revs especially in gear 2. The noise resolves when at higher speeds (50km+).

I think it's the rear differential as I had the prop shaft replaced.

Did anyone get to the bottom of the problem?
Much appreciated

The auto engagement of the rear drive is disconnected at 50km/h…. I wonder if the solenoid that should *engage* it has become jammed, so ‘stuck’ in 4 wheel drive mode? If so, then the noise could be owing to ‘wind up’ between the front and rear ends (which normally can only happen if ELD is turned on on grippy tarmac)

 

[The Panda Nut]

EDL is the turned off.... Hardly ever use it.

It wont be tyres, the rears are in good condition, plenty of grip, even wear. I did get some brand new ones for the front a few days back, (the problem persisted before I got the front tyres)

I changed the rear diff oil, which made no difference. I did check the oil that came out, no shavings or anything present in the oil...

I've noticed it doesn't do it as much when rolling down hill, but when I'm accelerating uphill at low speed the juddering is terrible.

The confusing thing is that it doesn't do it from a cold start, and takes 15mins of wheel turn for it to come back....

To reiterate others. Normally its two wheel drive so the rear drive is largely turning by virtue of movement not drive. Try swapping ends withe the tyres tyres. The only other thought is rear brakes sticking. Easy to check.

 

[bugsymike]

To reiterate others. Normally its two wheel drive so the rear drive is largely turning by virtue of movement not drive. Try swapping ends withe the tyres tyres. The only other thought is rear brakes sticking. Easy to check.

Unlikely I know but certain types of limited slip diff can fail due to certain oils or additives stopping the working characteristics of that system.
I know on some vehicles where there was a choice of having LSD or not mistakes have been expensive for that reason.