Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

[widemouthfrog]

...until the piston in the master cylinder passes the connection to the fluid reservoir (which is not part of the pressurised system). I'm not sure if there's a one-way valve in that line.

A light spring between the clutch fork lever and the body of the slave cylinder would perhaps withdraw the clutch bearing. How is the bearing held to the tips of the clutch fork?

 

[MarkX]

A light spring between the clutch fork lever and the body of the slave cylinder would perhaps withdraw the clutch bearing.

You read my mind! A return spring somewhere to return the bearing to a position just short of the clutch fingers.

How is the bearing held to the tips of the clutch fork?

I believe that with some clutch kits there is nothing holding the release bearing to the fork, hence I've read that the bearing can fall off the input shaft on gearbox installation much to the annoyance of the owner/installer. However, with the LUK kit I put in, there is a square hook on the lower bearing bracket which hooks under the lower fork arm preventing this happening.

 

[widemouthfrog]

Isn't there a redundant hole next to those used for mounting the slave cylinder? That could be used to fix an L-angle bracket. The vertical face of the L could have two holes in it; one large (8mm) & one small (2-3mm). The small one could take the end loop of an extension spring, the larger one a long M8 bolt with a lock nut either side of the angle so that it could be adjusted for reach - that would provide an end stop for the withdrawn lever. How to hook the other end of the spring onto the clutch fork arm?

I think I can see now the reason for all the badly worn clutch fingers and it's at least in part due to the wear in the clutch fork bearings, which allows pressure to be applied to the release bearing off-centre (witness the gouging of the centre tube in your excellent photos). That in turn means that release of the pressure plate isn't even all around the clutch - something like a swash plate in a hydraulic motor - and you'll end up with judder and excessive wear on the fingers.

The pressure applied to the release bearing by the clutch fork is something of a compromise anyway because the contact points between the two are on an arc so can't stay on the centreline of the gearbox input shaft.

 

[MarkX]

Isn't there a redundant hole next to those used for mounting the slave cylinder? That could be used to fix an L-angle bracket. The vertical face of the L could have two holes in it; one large (8mm) & one small (2-3mm). The small one could take the end loop of an extension spring, the larger one a long M8 bolt with a lock nut either side of the angle so that it could be adjusted for reach - that would provide an end stop for the withdrawn lever. How to hook the other end of the spring onto the clutch fork arm?

When you've made and tested it, don't forget to post photos and the blueprint!

I think I can see now the reason for all the badly worn clutch fingers and it's at least in part due to the wear in the clutch fork bearings, which allows pressure to be applied to the release bearing off-centre

My fork top bearing was markedly more worn than the bottom fork bearing, I guess because the top bearing receives most of the load from the clutch lever.

Doesn't help that the bellhousing hole is worn too, accentuating the off-centre load on the release bearing. That's why I'm thinking of getting an oversized top bearing made up.

But's that's for another day, have to get the bl**dy thing back running again...

Off to get a new battery...

 

[widemouthfrog]

Good luck with the battery - let's hope you're up and running today.

 

[MarkX]

Hello Folks,

Progress Today...

Battery: I went online and found a 62Ah, 540 CCA, 3 year warranty, Exide battery for £54 from Euro Car Parts. Beat any of the local partstealers by miles ie. the same money would only get me a 1 year warranty, non-branded battery. The local equivalent to the Exide cost £75! No sale! So I ordered the Exide and got on the bus to my nearest Euro Car Parts Click & Collect depot - 2 hr round trip on the bus lugging a car battery, better be worth it... (extra bus fare on top of my bus pass: £3 return). That makes £57 for a good, branded, long warranty battery.

On the way home I dumped the new battery by the Multi and carried on home (the car is 1/4 mile from my house) to fetch the old battery and jump leads, to hook that up as well. Not taking any chances. Installed the new battery, hooked up the old battery to it, a few pumps on the gas pedal, turn the key, and...

THE ENGINE STARTED FIRST TIME, FIRST TURN OF THE KEY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 6 MONTHS !!!!!!!

YEEEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!

So the non-starter problem was caused by an old, dead battery.

Now to test the clutch and gears. As you'll recall, the tax and MOT have run out so the car's camped temporarily on the car park of a shut pub and I can't go any distance legally yet - in fact about 30 yards to the end of the car park. So... clutch in, into 1st -smooth as anything, handbrake off, clutch out, and a little trip to the end of the car park. Then tried Reverse - went into Reverse gear fine - like a new car.

All the electrics appear to be working OK including my cobbled-together alternative windscreen washer system (thought I was going to have to troubleshoot the electrics, but no). Check for leaks underneath... Oh no, what's that dripping... Oh it's only the washer water dripping down under the car from the windscreen. So far, touch wood, there is no evidence of leaking engine oil or gearbox oil. Maybe the new seals are OK after all.

What an amazing car ! It's been sitting completely dead outside my house for 6 months through a whole, wet, cold winter and the flipping thing starts first turn of the key (with a good battery). Amazing!

The car starting has saved me a £25 towing fee, plus god knows what to troubleshoot a non-starter, now I can get to the MOT garage under my own steam.

The car is booked into a garage on Thursday morning, for pre-MOT checks, prep and MOT. Before then there are a few little jobs to do: tighten the NS driveshaft bolts to the correct torque setting plus threadlock, new wipers, bit of a wash, new generic washer jets (£4 each, partstealer), put a proper exhaust rubber on to replace the cable-ties currently holding up the front exhaust, and maybe do the other OS wishbone which would save me about £30 in labour maybe (and give me a sense of completion having done the other wishbone), versus tackling a tricky job and not being able to get the new 'bone back on the car. Maybe the wishbone's OK anyway. Will sleep on it.

Still got the MOT to get through so not going to count my chickens yet. But Today things are looking up. Relief that it started, relief that the clutch and gears work, relief that all the electrics appear to work, so far no obvious showstoppers. We shall see...

Mark

 

[MultiplaAbarth]

Yay!, congrats bud, the news we wanted to hear!, these cars have some good, nay great points!, the engines are solid and sturdy, not much can make them flap.
Even if it fails the MOT, its not likely to be much, unless its the rear trailing arm bearings, fingers crossed!

 

[widemouthfrog]

Yay!!!! Time for a national holiday in (whatever part of the UK you're in) and an optic run of 'happy' smilies:
:woot::wave::yum::slayer::hug: :spin:
Congrats Mark!

 

[widemouthfrog]

Not sure what it is that causes problems with replacing the front wishbones. You're not the first to have troubles so there must be something out of line that gives rise to this. Both of mine went straight on without any fuss. When you did the first one, did you have both sides of the car on axle stands, under the sills?

 

[MarkX]

Thanks both of you MultiplaAbarth & widemouthfrog.

 

[MarkX]

Not sure what it is that causes problems with replacing the front wishbones. You're not the first to have troubles so there must be something out of line that gives rise to this. Both of mine went straight on without any fuss. When you did the first one, did you have both sides of the car on axle stands, under the sills

No. Just one axle stand under the side I was working on - the NS. Problem came with the longest bolt - rear bracket, back bolt. For the bracket hole to line up with the hole in the subframe required the bracket to make a final movement of 1.5mm diagonally towards the front OS which was not possible - I discovered eventually - because the bracket was hitting up against the anti-roll bar bracket so the wishbone bracket couldn't move any further back towards the OS. The wishbones I've bought are not original Fiat kit - could it be that the brackets might be oversized compared to the originals and are a mm or two larger across (NS to OS)?

 

[MarkX]

Just comparing an old and new front wishbone, the holes appear to be in different positions. For the rear bracket, hole nearest the OS, there is a 2mm difference in hole positions relative to the OS edge of the bracket. Could this be the problem in fitting?

 

[boilermansab]

That's the hole I struggled with on the passenger side...drivers side ws fine.i ended up stripping the thread...luckily shop4parts replaced it free of charge..

 

[widemouthfrog]

Just comparing an old and new front wishbone, the holes appear to be in different positions. For the rear bracket, hole nearest the OS, there is a 2mm difference in hole positions relative to the OS edge of the bracket. Could this be the problem in fitting?

Are the aluminium x-sections identical? Also, is the new one Birth?

 

[boilermansab]

Mine were birth...

 

[MarkX]

Are the aluminium x-sections identical? Also, is the new one Birth?

Sorry... "Birth" - never heard this term before, what does it mean? Original Fiat kit? Or...?

 

[MarkX]

Are the aluminium x-sections identical?

As far as I can tell by eye.

 

[boilermansab]

Birth are just aftermarket...shop4parts sell a lot of their stuff

 

[MarkX]

Just been into town to get some generic washer jets, however the partstealer showed me how to clean out the inside of the jets, by inserting a flat-bladed screwdriver into the slot on the side and turning it to get at the insides. Great stuff. Kind of him, I didn't even buy anything.

 

[widemouthfrog]

'Birth' are OEM suppliers to a lot of Italian car companies. Many of the parts they sell (through the likes of Shop4Parts) are even marked with the OEM part numbers and logo. I've just bought a pair of the Birth wishbones to replace the ones made of cheese that I bought on ebay a couple of years ago, so your comment rang a few alarm bells. I need to check if mine are ok.

The little screwdriver slot on the side of the washer jets are also what's used to aim the jets, in one plane at least.