i got the impression that it was a standard engine just left run up on a dyno.
Technical Motorbike cylinder head on FIRE engine!!!!
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Technical Motorbike cylinder head on FIRE engine!!!!
i got the impression that it was a standard engine just left run up on a dyno.
soozukisteve
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I suspect we might be talking about 2 completely different engines??
but im not going to swear on it as its a hazy memory from a few years ago!
maybe somebody could shed some light on it as im happy to concede that im wrong but im sure it was a standard FIRE engine just revved until it broke.
Hard to imagine what a FIRE at full throttle at 14000rpm sounds like............but i want one!!!
Just had a look at wolf direct but cant seem to find any info on this 14000rpm race engine.if anybody has a link to it could you please post it for me!!
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The guy you are talking off is a conman who has stolen a lot of money and given false information to a magazine on things he never has done.
BTW the Seicento kit car was prepared for group A1 being bored out to 1146cc with a specific power output of 157bhp.
The Cinquecento group N car had a specific power output of 120bhp at 11,000rpm.
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Think you are all referering to the article here:
http://www.wolfdirectracing.co.uk/press.aspx
TBH, I think there is bad blood between GSR / Wolf (ex UAD?). Don't know the history persponally though so can't comment on things.
Kristian
http://www.wolfdirectracing.co.uk/press.aspx
TBH, I think there is bad blood between GSR / Wolf (ex UAD?). Don't know the history persponally though so can't comment on things.
Kristian
Zoom in on the first page...top right...second coloum...two thirds of the way down
Im looking to get 100+bhp out of my 1.2 16v when i get round to sorting the delivery
soozukisteve
New member
Thats the badger!!!!
So it was a bit of a false memory.....
on a tangent-does anyone know what happened to Retro Cars?
I used to really like that mag!
So it was a bit of a false memory.....
on a tangent-does anyone know what happened to Retro Cars?
I used to really like that mag!
hmmm if u want orginial ideas, never been done before, hi-boost a 899cc (and make it reliable ) ??? I mean surely that will satisfy your budget and keeping it orginial at the same time.
One project that occured to a couple of us (at least) but has never been done is a front engine rwd cinq. A Mazda rotary might just fit..........
Just dragging the thread back to the original topic, I'm no expert on this kind of thing, but, I would have thought putting a bike head on a car block would be fraught with problems. Most bike engines tend to have a large bore and short stroke to give high engine speeds to produce enough power at the expense of torque. Most car engines have longer stroke to keep revs down and produce more torque at the expense of power while retaining reliability. Very few bike engines have belt driven camshafts, very few cars have chain driven ones. Most cars now have hydraulic tappets which rarely, if at all need any adjustment while bike heads tend to need the shims adjusting every 6K. I would have thought the amount of engineering work required would be prohibitively expensive as you would have to drill the head to accept the studs, make sure the oil galleries lined up and what about the pullies - chain or belt? Surely a 1242 16v motor would provide you with some of the power you need with sufficient torque figures. You've always got the option of further tuning as & when you want it. You've also got to remember that very few bikes weigh more than 250 kgs. while few cars weigh less than 850kgs.
soozukisteve
New member
thanks for the input-
the 899 turbo route-to be honest,im concerned that the torque will end up causing me transmission problems and the 2 899s i have owned have been the most unreliable engines i have had any experience with....Also,i have a van aaken low comp bottom end and t15 turbo that keeps looking at me in the garage but im thinking about other alternatives first.
the rotary engine route-i have already been there(allbeit with a different car).I had a 12a wankel engine and transmission that i was grafting into an old bedford rascal(told you i was a nutter).it was about the only front engine rwd engine that would fit under the front seats!I had the opertunity to use a bike engine but was going to fit the rear out with a rather large(and heavy) stereo system so it would have been totally gutless at lower rpm...
forgetting the issues of getting the head to fit for a moment,providing the bottom end is stable under high rpm the peak torque produced is substantially less than a high boost turbo and comes in 'relatively' softly compared to a turbo coming on boost thus giving the transmission and driveline a much easier time.i concede that even in a seic the body weight will have an impact on acceleration and thats where gear ratios come into play a bit (which admittedly i havent really looked into much yet-apart from the 6 speed!).I have been in a 650kg motor with a fireblade engine and it was suprisingly tractable at low rpm.dont get me wrong,it doesnt even compare to a low boost turbo,but its certainly usable.
i have a daily driver and now live 2 mins from work so i intend to make it a long term project, so engineering wise sorting out the timing chain/belt side isnt too much of a problem.picking the right cylinder head (for the bore size and spacing) however would be the major problem,and the ensuing machining to connect waterways etc...
bike engines in the 750-900 range have bore sizes of around 70mm with about 20mm less stroke.the larger stroke of the car bottom end would help keep the gas speed higher and fill in the bottom end torque a little together with the heavier reciprocating parts.these bike engines (even 10-12 years old) are making upwards of 125bhp.
in my warped and twisted head this option seems worth consideration when asking even the newer 16v fiat units to make 125bhp would take a fair amount of work.
Is there nobody out there that will fight my corner???..boo.hoo..
the 899 turbo route-to be honest,im concerned that the torque will end up causing me transmission problems and the 2 899s i have owned have been the most unreliable engines i have had any experience with....Also,i have a van aaken low comp bottom end and t15 turbo that keeps looking at me in the garage but im thinking about other alternatives first.
the rotary engine route-i have already been there(allbeit with a different car).I had a 12a wankel engine and transmission that i was grafting into an old bedford rascal(told you i was a nutter).it was about the only front engine rwd engine that would fit under the front seats!I had the opertunity to use a bike engine but was going to fit the rear out with a rather large(and heavy) stereo system so it would have been totally gutless at lower rpm...
forgetting the issues of getting the head to fit for a moment,providing the bottom end is stable under high rpm the peak torque produced is substantially less than a high boost turbo and comes in 'relatively' softly compared to a turbo coming on boost thus giving the transmission and driveline a much easier time.i concede that even in a seic the body weight will have an impact on acceleration and thats where gear ratios come into play a bit (which admittedly i havent really looked into much yet-apart from the 6 speed!).I have been in a 650kg motor with a fireblade engine and it was suprisingly tractable at low rpm.dont get me wrong,it doesnt even compare to a low boost turbo,but its certainly usable.
i have a daily driver and now live 2 mins from work so i intend to make it a long term project, so engineering wise sorting out the timing chain/belt side isnt too much of a problem.picking the right cylinder head (for the bore size and spacing) however would be the major problem,and the ensuing machining to connect waterways etc...
bike engines in the 750-900 range have bore sizes of around 70mm with about 20mm less stroke.the larger stroke of the car bottom end would help keep the gas speed higher and fill in the bottom end torque a little together with the heavier reciprocating parts.these bike engines (even 10-12 years old) are making upwards of 125bhp.
in my warped and twisted head this option seems worth consideration when asking even the newer 16v fiat units to make 125bhp would take a fair amount of work.
Is there nobody out there that will fight my corner???..boo.hoo..
Is there nobody out there that will fight my corner???..boo.hoo..
Fitting a bike engine? sure i'll back you on that one.
Fitting a bike head on a FIRE block? As I said above, what is this going to achieve? Fitting a bike head will not give you a high revving engine.:bang:
Sure you want to be 'different' but there is 'being different' and there is 'doing the wrong thing'. Just because one solution to one engine (K head on A series block) works it doesn't mean you can do this to any engine and it magically makes it scream to 12,000 rpm. All you've done is fit a different head. So what? I suppose you could make it work, and good luck to you if you do go down that route, but there are better ways to go about achieving what you want.
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If you want revs....get the bottom end lightened, balanced and strenghtened, a proper ecu you can map easily and a cam and springs to suit
P.s i doubt you'll get the f/w under 3kg, ive tried and parts are very thin
P.s i doubt you'll get the f/w under 3kg, ive tried and parts are very thin
unreliable engine ??? owned two, both ran without major problems
"the 899 turbo route-to be honest,im concerned that the torque will end up causing me transmission problems "
The funny thing is, that's nothing compare to what u 'plan' to do..
"the 899 turbo route-to be honest,im concerned that the torque will end up causing me transmission problems "
The funny thing is, that's nothing compare to what u 'plan' to do..
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The truly strange thing is that even hi boost turbo Cinqs don't seem to have gearbox problems, clutch problems, yes, although the way forward on that is clear.
seing as were on the talk of cylinder heads. does anybody know if a punto 75 head fits a seicento 1108 mpi block? as i can get hold of the head fairly simple. was after the whole engine. but i wana try and geta frankenstien engine. lol. i know someone has done some kind of 75/sei mpi engine mix. think hes from cardiff. his seicento was red. thats all i remember.
Fits, but has no cam sensor (at least, the Mk1 doesn't) so you'd need a 75 ecu and a fair few mods. I think that, cam aside, it's the same head, so why bother?
soozukisteve
New member
Thats interesting!!i may well end up building up the turbo engine anyway,it would already be done if i hadnt had loads of problems with a piggyback style injector system that i ordered and it never arrived...got a bit pissed off with it so the engine has just been sat around for months.ive got a mint low mileage t15 turbo that should do the trick,just need to make an adaptor plate for the manifold or if im feeling brave,might have a go at fabricating a 4 branch!
im sure if i search the forum there will prob be stuff floating around,but being as we're on the subject how do people overcome the weak clutch problem and what kind of power and torque is proving reliable(i heard that the gearboxes were prone to failure at about 120lbft?
will do a bit of investigating to see if a turbo/high rev compromise is possible without the turbo running out of puff at high rpm or taking an age to spool up lower down..........
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People use a 200mm fiat stilo 1.4 16v/panda 100hp/idea 1.4 16v etc clutch and uprated clutch.
If your worried about running out of puff or slow spool, and you like your mad ideas, build a twin turbo
Kristian
If your worried about running out of puff or slow spool, and you like your mad ideas, build a twin turbo
Kristian
But you need the clutch and flywheel. Fluffy tells me he's sold a lot of these for turbo conversions and has had none back so far!
Should the box fall to bits, the 1400 one is stronger, more or less a bolt on fit (change the selector mechanism over) but you don't need 6 speeds with a turbo Cinq.
Should the box fall to bits, the 1400 one is stronger, more or less a bolt on fit (change the selector mechanism over) but you don't need 6 speeds with a turbo Cinq.
