Technical Mk1 - Mk2 16v Differences.

[Razman]

Yes, the info is probably around somewhere in the depths of this forum, there's plenty of threads, but not much info on this.

I'm pretty oblivious when it comes to the 16v's, I've been an 8v guy up until now. In January I'll be buying a mk1 punto sporting, 1.2 16v.

I'd quite like to drop in a 1.4 16v, but I'm interested to know what combination of bits will work best.

I know the 1.2 has spicier cams and double valve springs, but I'm more interested in if there are any differences in head design? Compression? Should I use the 1.4 ecu? Etc. etc.

Any and all differences between the Mk1 1.2 and the 1.4 16v would be much appreciated

Thanks

 

[The Black Box]

Yes, the info is probably around somewhere in the depths of this forum, there's plenty of threads, but not much info on this.

I'm pretty oblivious when it comes to the 16v's, I've been an 8v guy up until now. In January I'll be buying a mk1 punto sporting, 1.2 16v.

I'd quite like to drop in a 1.4 16v, but I'm interested to know what combination of bits will work best.

I know the 1.2 has spicier cams and double valve springs, but I'm more interested in if there are any differences in head design? Compression? Should I use the 1.4 ecu? Etc. etc.

Any and all differences between the Mk1 1.2 and the 1.4 16v would be much appreciated

Thanks

Some 1.4 has an extra oil way In the block for the variator my gp lump did use the 1.2 ecu. Apart from that stay 8v!

 

[Young Efficient]

From what I know, mk1s also have cable throttle, and a slightly different inlet manifold, one being metal lower part. And thats my knowledge over.

 

[Cento186]

Hopefully this is right as I'm also rather ignorant of the 16v's being an 8v guy

As far as I know the MK1 1.2 has these:
- Better cams
- Double valve springs
- Two part inlet (plastic/metal) for the cable TB as I understand it.
- Better head casting, as with all older Fiat engines
- Some variants had the ladder braced crank

There's probably a lot I've missed but that's just off the top of my head.

The general consensus seems to be that the 1.4 will run on the MK1 1.2 ecu just not very well. The MK1 ecu is nearly always used in the conversion as it is far easier than using the later ones.

Availability of 4-2-1 manifolds is much less for the MK1 head, the majority are all for the MK2 (1.2/1.4).

A quick internet search suggests the 1.2 and 1.4 16v have compression ratios of 10.2:1 and 11:1 respectively.


Main point, wtf are you doing swapping to 16v?

 

[Razman]

Hopefully this is right as I'm also rather ignorant of the 16v's being an 8v guy

As far as I know the MK1 1.2 has these:
- Better cams
- Double valve springs
- Two part inlet (plastic/metal) for the cable TB as I understand it.
- Better head casting, as with all older Fiat engines
- Some variants had the ladder braced crank

There's probably a lot I've missed but that's just off the top of my head.

The general consensus seems to be that the 1.4 will run on the MK1 1.2 ecu just not very well. The MK1 ecu is nearly always used in the conversion as it is far easier than using the later ones.

Availability of 4-2-1 manifolds is much less for the MK1 head, the majority are all for the MK2 (1.2/1.4).

A quick internet search suggests the 1.2 and 1.4 16v have compression ratios of 10.2:1 and 11:1 respectively.


Main point, wtf are you doing swapping to 16v?

Better head casting, care to elaborate?

Are the exhaust manifolds not the same for the mk1/2 16vs?

I love the 8v engine, but I'll be running both, a car with a 16v and an 8v.

8v forever!

 

[Cento186]

Better head casting, care to elaborate?

The ports on the MK1 heads are much cleaner/smoother than the newer heads

Are the exhaust manifolds not the same for the mk1/2 16vs?

No, different stud pattern for whatever reason

I love the 8v engine, but I'll be running both, a car with a 16v and an 8v.

8v forever!

That's what I like to hear :slayer:

 

[whitz]

Wait till you build a good 16v and you will never go back unless you cant do it right

Some mk1 engines had double valve springs not all
mk1s have a more aggressive cam profile
alloy lower and plastic upper on a mk1 engine
mk1 fuel rail is a return type
mk1 head has a different stud pattern to the mk2
mk1 head has a hole machined next to the thermostat to take the temp gauge sender
1.2s have a lower CR then the 1.4s, also 1.2 has a small crank girdle over the crank caps where as 1.4 has a full crank brace where caps are machined into it

mk1 sporting engine 1.2 16v 85hp stock new
mk2 sporting engine 1.2 16v 82hp stock new
mk3+ engine 1.4 16v 90hp stock new
panda 100hp engine obviously 100hp stock new


i got my 90hp 1.4 16v engine slapped a remap (running mk1 sporting ecu) larger TB lighter flywheel and exhaust, that made 103.7hp on a proven RR not like a few people out there claiming silly HP thats written in by hand

Or you could throw money at your cento like me and T-Jet it and make 200+hp easily

Ash

 

[Razman]

Wait till you build a good 16v and you will never go back unless you cant do it right

Some mk1 engines had double valve springs not all
mk1s have a more aggressive cam profile
alloy lower and plastic upper on a mk1 engine
mk1 fuel rail is a return type
mk1 head has a different stud pattern to the mk2
mk1 head has a hole machined next to the thermostat to take the temp gauge sender
1.2s have a lower CR then the 1.4s, also 1.2 has a small crank girdle over the crank caps where as 1.4 has a full crank brace where caps are machined into it

mk1 sporting engine 1.2 16v 85hp stock new
mk2 sporting engine 1.2 16v 82hp stock new
mk3+ engine 1.4 16v 90hp stock new
panda 100hp engine obviously 100hp stock new


i got my 90hp 1.4 16v engine slapped a remap (running mk1 sporting ecu) larger TB lighter flywheel and exhaust, that made 103.7hp on a proven RR not like a few people out there claiming silly HP thats written in by hand

Or you could throw money at your cento like me and T-Jet it and make 200+hp easily

Ash

Thank you very much for all that info ash

Is the inlet stud pattern the same for the mk1/2?

Who remapped your Mk1 ECU?

Thanks

 

[whitz]

Thank you very much for all that info ash

Is the inlet stud pattern the same for the mk1/2?

Who remapped your Mk1 ECU?

Thanks

yea mk1/mk2 inlets are the same but not on starjet 1.4s or tjet heads as they have no water way there (its done by the bolt on thermostat)

i had it chipped by a local company

Ash

 

[Razman]

No point starting another thread, so I may as well ask here

-Why do people tend to run aftermarket FPR's on 16v conversions?
-Injector and fuel pump size, does it vary between the Mk1 1.2 16v, Mk2 1.2 16v and 1.4 16v?

Thanks in advance.

 

[whitz]

No point starting another thread, so I may as well ask here

-Why do people tend to run aftermarket FPR's on 16v conversions?
-Injector and fuel pump size, does it vary between the Mk1 1.2 16v, Mk2 1.2 16v and 1.4 16v?

Thanks in advance.

i dont most people use ebay specials as they look nice

they all run at the usual 3bar

Ash

 

[fingers99]

The other thing to investigate is return vs. non return fuel systems. All SPI cars (and, I think the Mk1 16v) are return. Mk2 and MPI (except P75) are non return.

 

[Razman]

The other thing to investigate is return vs. non return fuel systems. All SPI cars (and, I think the Mk1 16v) are return. Mk2 and MPI (except P75) are non return.

That's a good.point, I didn't think of that. I'm quite interested to know if the 1.4 had any extra fuelling to cope. I know my 1.2 injectors could manage, but I want it to be optimal.

 

[Razman]

Here's a bit of info I nicked from another thread, so the 1.4 injectors are bigger, but not by much.

Link: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/136855-injector-flow-rates.html

Injector flow rates

These are really for fingers, as I couldn't attach them to a PM.


IWP045 is for the 1.2 16V 200cc/min
IWP116 is sei mpi and is 155cc/min
Bosch part for Panda 100hp are 213cc/min


IWO54 is 190cc/min but i'm not sure where these are used don't think they are pico, and i can't find specs for an IWP054!

 

[fingers99]

Not sure that there is a IWP054! There seems to be no logic in the numbering!

If you can use the longer Bosch ones, it'll give you a better choice, I think. IW = non Pico, IWP = Pico. All the Pico ones are shorter (suit the MPI Sei).

 

[ycming]

I run IWP006 on the 1.4, and turn the fuel pressure in a non-scientific way to minimize the stutter at low rev when you floor it.

Ming

 

[Razman]

I run IWP006 on the 1.4, and turn the fuel pressure in a non-scientific way to minimize the stutter at low rev when you floor it.

Ming

That's good to know, as the 006 seems the best option for a small upgrade.

Did you buy yours new? I've seen that these can be found in the 106 GTI, Saxo VTS, and various Fiat 1.8 engines (Barchetta, Bravo, Punto etc.)

 

[ycming]

That's good to know, as the 006 seems the best option for a small upgrade.

Did you buy yours new? I've seen that these can be found in the 106 GTI, Saxo VTS, and various Fiat 1.8 engines (Barchetta, Bravo, Punto etc.)

i didn't get them new, they are too expensive, but eventually i will get mine professional clean/refurb.

Got them from 106 GTI fiorum .

Ming

 

[Razman]

i didn't get them new, they are too expensive, but eventually i will get mine professional clean/refurb.

Got them from 106 GTI fiorum .

Ming

Thanks for that

And how are they working out for you?

EDIT: Also, do IWP006 injectors fit the MK1 punto sporting rail? Or are you using the 1.4 rail?

 

[ycming]

Thanks for that

And how are they working out for you?

EDIT: Also, do IWP006 injectors fit the MK1 punto sporting rail? Or are you using the 1.4 rail?

mk1 punto sporting rail. They been fine, but i hardly use the car, as i am in London, car in glasgow!

But i am planning to take it off road next year, to sort the body work out !

Ming