General LED headlight bulbs now legal

[lazylobster]

So, just seen on


https://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/led-headlight-upgrades-classic-cars-legal-or-not

The phase that pays:

The DVSA says: ‘Vehicles first used before 1 April 1986 are not required to use type approved ‘e’ marked headlamps. Therefore, converting a halogen, or other headlamp on such a vehicle to use LED bulbs would not be in contravention of the regulations.’

So I guess I was just ahead of the game, my LED's are a game changer for brightness and performance. Less current draw also.


For those that want to in the UK, fill your boots!

R

 

[JumpJet]

Can you post a link to the thread with your setup?

 

[lazylobster]

Can you post a link to the thread with your setup?

Sure, all here:

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/474525-enlightning.html

Cheers
Rob

 

[JumpJet]

Looks like they're selling an 'all-in-one' kit at a slightly reduced price now. Sadly, no distributor in the US, so another 30 pounds for shipping. Oof.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The article doesn’t specially say that they’re now legal, just that they won’t fail the MOT for the same reasons.

It’s idiots retro fitting HIDs and LED bulbs into reflector headlamp units that are causing half the problems!

Either upgrade to the correct filament bulbs available or change the entire unit to one designed to work with LED / HID units :bang:

 

[g8rpi]

Nothing new here, pre '86 cars never needed E marked lights. It's still a moving offence to use lights that dazzle or distract other road users though.

 

[lazylobster]

So, here's the funny thing. When I fitted my LED's at service the garage did a MOT check on the bulbs. Not even mentioned. The pattern and alignment were spot on. I don't think well designed and engineered LED bulbs are an issue, they are a bulb that throws out more light in the correct pattern. If you buy an eBay job at £10 then you really are asking to be a plank.

HID's on the other hand require a specific headlight unit.

The original 40 odd watt bulb is a joke at night. Might as well shine a torch.

I'm no lawyer (clearly) but if the fitting of a LED to a pre 86 car won't fail the MOT then they are allowed to be used, or dare I say the word, legal to use on the road . . . I'm sure we will only know for sure when the first test case goes to court when an insurance company refuses to pay out due to the fitment of LED bulbs.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I'm no lawyer (clearly) but if the fitting of a LED to a pre 86 car won't fail the MOT then they are allowed to be used, or dare I say the word, legal to use on the road . . .

No, no they’re not.

MOT tests for specific things and makes sure that items meet a specific criteria as tested for. It doesn’t mean that something is either safe or legal because it passes an MOT.

An MOT doesn’t test for light scatter from a headlamp unit, only the beam pattern and level. This is where is falls short of idiots fitting HID and LED units retrospectively :bang:

 

[JumpJet]

The problem is more that there is a 'minefield of sh*t' when it comes to LED bulbs. There are so many cheap, terrible options that don't mimic the halogen bulbs accurately enough, scattering light and blinding drivers. There ARE good LEDs that don't scatter, but the market is unregulated and, at least in the US, completely un-enforced.

At least in the EU you don't have idiots in their jacked up BroDozers driving around with bad LED/HID kits and LED light bars on - that's a special kind of stupid over here.

 

[lazylobster]

Dear Mr Panda,

the whole point of the MOT is to ensure that car parts / operations are indeed safe and legal as defined by the DVSA and UK Gov. Otherwise, what is the point of said test? If you don't have a valid MOT then indeed your car is not road worthy and your insurance is invalid.

Your concern seems centred upon light scatter of HID / LED. I agree that HID bulbs in a non HID lamp unit is a terrible concern. I'm not so convinced of the LED bulbs I've installed.


There are many LED manufactures from the Mickey Mouse end of the spectrum to more reasoned and engineered examples where scatter has been thought about and designed into the units. You really do get what you pay for. Have a look at these:

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/co...s-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v

Listen, we'll not going to agree on this by the look of it and I’d hate to see you blow a fuse over this point. For me personally, I'm happy with the installation and on the rare occasion I've driven at night, I've not had anyone flash me to indicate I'm dazzling them.

Wish you well.
Rob

 

[g8rpi]

Dear Mr Panda,

the whole point of the MOT is to ensure that car parts / operations are indeed safe and legal as defined by the DVSA and UK Gov. Otherwise, what is the point of said test? If you don't have a valid MOT then indeed your car is not road worthy and your insurance is invalid.

Your concern seems centred upon light scatter of HID / LED. I agree that HID bulbs in a non HID lamp unit is a terrible concern. I'm not so convinced of the LED bulbs I've installed.


There are many LED manufactures from the Mickey Mouse end of the spectrum to more reasoned and engineered examples where scatter has been thought about and designed into the units. You really do get what you pay for. Have a look at these:

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/co...s-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v

Listen, we'll not going to agree on this by the look of it and I’d hate to see you blow a fuse over this point. For me personally, I'm happy with the installation and on the rare occasion I've driven at night, I've not had anyone flash me to indicate I'm dazzling them.

Wish you well.
Rob

The MOT is a safety and emissions check. It is not a check of compliance with the construction and use, lighting and otherregulations. The only accepted way to ensure a modified car meets the main legal requirements is to subject it to an SVA test, but even that does not include full emissions and obviously not crash safety.
While some specific models may give reasonable results in specific lamp units, the laws of physics dictate that it is impossible to make a LED that will meet the requirements for a halogen filament lamp.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

:yeahthat:

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I'm not so convinced of the LED bulbs I've installed.

And there in lies the problem.

Now you may have changed them since, but looking back at an old post of yours showing how good your LED lights were it was clear to see the horrific scatter caused

Reflector and refractor units cause scatter, it’s the laws of physics and light refraction.

At certain light wave spectrums this isn’t that much of an issue, but becomes so with the light wave spectrums created by HIDs and LEDs, it’s an unfortunate fact and is what it is regardless of what anyone may try and say.

 

[Clarine12]

thanks for sharing