Technical Fiat headlights

[stocky]

Hi I've a query please on my fiat 1964 600D headlights.
When I switch the ignition on they come on straight away, I'm thinking this is a mod done by previous owner and not correct?
Posting here as no action on the 600 forum and guessing they are pretty similar to 500.
Any tips on best way to sort please?

 

[the hobbler]

Hi I've a query please on my fiat 1964 600D headlights.
When I switch the ignition on they come on straight away, I'm thinking this is a mod done by previous owner and not correct?
Posting here as no action on the 600 forum and guessing they are pretty similar to 500.
Any tips on best way to sort please?

Has the switch on the dash-board been tampered with, or modified in such a way that it stays 'live' all the time the ignition is on?

 

[stocky]

Has the switch on the dash-board been tampered with, or modified in such a way that it stays 'live' all the time the ignition is on?

I'm thinking it must have gonna get my head under today and try and check it out.
Will try and trace the wires against the wiring diagram.

 

[stocky]

Just checking the lighting system and it seem strange.
Turn ignition key to the left and it should be park - I get headlights on no rear lights.
Turn ignition right - I get headlights on no rear lights.
Then flick light switch down I get head and tail lights.
Stalk to position 2 head and tail lights.
Stalk to position 3 main beam and tail lights.
Questions
What should I get on park.
I know headlights should not be on just with ignition but is rest right?

 

[stocky]

Got the ignition switch out dosnt look like its been touched for years. Checked

Just checking the lighting system and it seem strange.
Turn ignition key to the left and it should be park - I get headlights on no rear lights.
Turn ignition right - I get headlights on no rear lights.
Then flick light switch down I get head and tail lights.
Stalk to position 2 head and tail lights.
Stalk to position 3 main beam and tail lights.
Questions
What should I get on park.
I know headlights should not be on just with ignition but is rest right?

So removed ignition switch and checked wires. All as per manual and don't look like they've been touched for years.
Had two extra wires according to two manuals diagrams so was puzzled but looked at another diagam in a Haynes manual and they were there with corresponding terminal numbers that match.
So I'm now at a bit of a loss, any got any ideas?

 

[the hobbler]

Just checking the lighting system and it seem strange.
Turn ignition key to the left and it should be park - I get headlights on no rear lights.
Turn ignition right - I get headlights on no rear lights.
Then flick light switch down I get head and tail lights.
Stalk to position 2 head and tail lights.
Stalk to position 3 main beam and tail lights.
Questions
What should I get on park.
I know headlights should not be on just with ignition but is rest right?

Whilst I will concede that I am no expert on the 600, I would be surprised if it did have a 'parking light' facility. As to the other 'light stalk' position/operationi think they sound correct for positions 2 +3. Position 1 (one) I would have thought, only brought on side lamps. NORMALLY, parking lights are operated by turning the ignition OFF, but leaving the indicator stalk in one of its operating positions---i.e for the (UK) o/s parking light to stay on, you leave the indicator stalk in the r/hand position. It sounds as if you iether having an earthing problem, or a previous owner has buggered around with the switch operation. Meant as a serious question----were they modified by somebody who wanted, like a lot of modern cars are fitted with, to have 'running' lights? With regard to the 'parking-light' situation,I am quite happy to be corrected---I have a friend with an original 600 Multipla---I will ask him what he has on his car.

 

[stocky]

Defo has parking lights if you turn ignition left

 

[fiat500]

Defo has parking lights if you turn ignition left

As is also the case on the 500, which on a cursory look, appears to have similar wiring. Could it be that the wires on the back of the dasboard toggle-switch ( I assume the 600 has one) are mixed up? On my 500, by turning the key to the left, the steering column lighting switch is activated independently of the ignition, and all the various lighting options are then available. But I think the toggle also has to be down.

 

[stocky]

Think ive moved forward slightly. Checked wiring to fuse box. Found the light toggle switch appears to have been wired wrong. Changed it and now get the following which is getting nearer i think.

Ignition switch on.
Front N/S HL on

Light toggle on.
All lights on except front O/S HL

Stalk
Pos 1 no change
Pos 2 main beams on

Ignition in park.
Front N/S HL on

Looking at the fuse box it appears ok except upside down.
Theres one wire blue/black that has something to do with indicators thats there that shouldnt be?
Attached fuse box as manual and as found.
Also elec dia.
Have to admit im just about at end of my knowledge, any thoughts or suggestions welcomed.
Can you get into the electrics on the column stalk or is it a sealed unit?

 

[stocky]

Put ingnition and toggle switch back in dash and connected battery.
Clicked ignition to right and thought i had a slight tingle in fingers so turned straight back off.
Disconnected live battery wire.
Put meter on disconnected live wire and car body - nothing.
Switch ignition on and have a short between live battery wire and car body.
My heads puddled now but is that correct or not?
Im thinking not but ive disconnected toggle switch which was only thing ive touched and still same or am i getting stir crazy.

 

[the hobbler]

Put ingnition and toggle switch back in dash and connected battery.
Clicked ignition to right and thought i had a slight tingle in fingers so turned straight back off.
Disconnected live battery wire.
Put meter on disconnected live wire and car body - nothing.
Switch ignition on and have a short between live battery wire and car body.
My heads puddled now but is that correct or not?
Im thinking not but ive disconnected toggle switch which was only thing ive touched and still same or am i getting stir crazy.

Now is the time for me to eat "humble pie". I have a 500L which has a ignition-switch/steering lock. There is no 'turn to the left' position on it, but THERE IS a position between 'OFF' and 'IGNITION ON' where I can pull the key out and switch the lights on! They are not 'parking lights' in the modern manner where only one side is switched on by the use of the indicator stalk with the ignition off, but they are 'parking lights' in that you can leave them on with the key withdrawn. It is so many years since I last had a 500F (probably 40 plus years), that I had completely forgotten that facility.
Stocky---not meaning on any way to demean your abilities, I think that the time has come for you to find out if you have an 'auto-electrician' shop in your area and ask their help to sort your problem. I had to use such a place when I lived in Ipswich and when I took my Fiat to them I was met with the comment (and not what I had expected at all)----"at last, a real car to work on!" I also needed to find, for reasons I won't bore you with, a 'lights on' switch that matched (as much as possible) the Fiat 'lights on' switch. I thumbed through the "Car Constructers" catalogue and found their switch:--PADLEDG', which when 'OFF', almost matched the original switch. The reason that I chose that switch is that it matched the original switch in wiring and operation. The fact that the end of the toggle lit up with a small green LED was (for the purpose I needed it) a bonus.
From the description of your problem, I am thinking that a previous owner has played around with the wiring, possibly as I have mentioned earlier, to have 'running lights' like a lot of modern cars have.

 

[stocky]

Hobbler I agree I'm not thick but am nervous when working on car electrics. Ive worked through wiring diagram but its not easy.
Might not have got a shock but I'm very nervous.
I havent really touched anything so not sure what it could be if anything.
Think i might see if theres a mobile lecky in the area.

 

[fiat500]

It sounds like someone has connected a jumper lead across from the (white?) feed that comes from the master lighting switch to the supply to the headlights that comes from the steering column cluster.
I would be checking out any spade or bullet terminals which have two cables out of them and which don't look "factory".

 

[stocky]

Had another go today, didn't have a short the other day I was just being paranoid.
So changed toggle light switch to black as feed per manual and tried again.

Ign click left - Park
Front HLs on

Ign click right
Front HLs on

Toggle light switch on
Front HLs on
Front and rear side lights on
Green dash light on

Column lever to position 2
Front HLs on
Front and rear side lights on
Green dash light on

Column lever to position 3
Front main beams on
Front and rear side lights on
Green dash light on
Blue dash light on

Brake light work correct
Stop lights work correct

This is my thoughts
HLs are wired with a direct feed from the ignition somehow?
This possibly comes from stalk lever?

Can you get at the electrics in the stalk or is it a sealed unit?
Any ideas appreciated

I can live with the wiring like this but I would like the headlights off during the day if I can sort it

 

[the hobbler]

Had another go today, didn't have a short the other day I was just being paranoid.
So changed toggle light switch to black as feed per manual and tried again.

Ign click left - Park
Front HLs on

Ign click right
Front HLs on

Toggle light switch on
Front HLs on
Front and rear side lights on
Green dash light on

Column lever to position 2
Front HLs on
Front and rear side lights on
Green dash light on

Column lever to position 3
Front main beams on
Front and rear side lights on
Green dash light on
Blue dash light on

Brake light work correct
Stop lights work correct

This is my thoughts
HLs are wired with a direct feed from the ignition somehow?
This possibly comes from stalk lever?

Can you get at the electrics in the stalk or is it a sealed unit?
Any ideas appreciated

I can live with the wiring like this but I would like the headlights off during the day if I can sort it

It sounds as if you are slowly sorting the problem. Column stalk in position 1 should only have the side lamps on + green 'lights on' indicating light on---pos. 2 headlamps should come on (low beam)--pos 3 headlights should be on high-beam, hence blue light on. Nearly there---well done!

 

[stocky]

It sounds as if you are slowly sorting the problem. Column stalk in position 1 should only have the side lamps on + green 'lights on' indicating light on---pos. 2 headlamps should come on (low beam)--pos 3 headlights should be on high-beam, hence blue light on. Nearly there---well done!

Do you know if you can get into the column stalk, tried yesterday but gave up.