Technical Jerky Acceleration - Panda 100hp (Fuel Filter/Pump?)

[mikelawrencenz]

My Panda 100hp (AKA : Sophia) is poorly, she's stuttering under accelerrtion above 3000rpm. I've been chasing the problem ($$$) for a wee while.

Changed the Pre-Cat O2 (Lamda) Sensor as the old one was a bit corroded, no joy. Added Catalytic Converter cleaning addivtives to a the fuel, nada Swapped out the ignition coils for brand spanker newbies, still got no luck.

On my second tank with injector cleaner additives in the mix and still getting stuttering through the acceleraion and sometimes a lumpy startup.

I'm thinking it's either a completely munted injector or the fuel filter/fuel pump. I dont have a OBD reader and the engine light only came on right at the start of Sophia's woes, not since.

Any ideas would be welcome.

Mike

 

[koalar]

Pretty much any sensor including pedal
Coils (yes I know they have been changed), plugs and so on,

We haven't enough to go on, it going to be difficult without access to live data

Is it consistent

What do the plugs look like

Does it stutter but carry on past 3K or is it like hitting a wall

When it stutters does the rev counter drop

If you rev the car in neutral does it still stutter

Is the temperature sensor reading normal

Oil, coolant levels and colours okay?

Pump, injectors, are possible but in many years I have never heard of petrol injector causing a serious issue and only one pump with low pressure, we do get them not working at all though, but neither would be an obvious choice for your symptoms


If you have an android phone an elm327 bluetooth for around £5 would tell you the live data

Or a stand alone unit that's plug and play can be had for under £20

Without some data or something to go on all you will be doing is changing parts blindly, which can get expensive if you guess wrong

 

[GeilN]

Check/change the ground cable that runs to the top of the gearbox

 

[mikelawrencenz]

@koalar Said....We haven't enough to go on, it going to be difficult without access to live data
A: Got myself an elm327 now - Error Code P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire ...So looking at the engine which is Cylinder One? Left, right ?
Q: Is it consistent
A: No
Q: What do the plugs look like
A: Will check this weekend, (They’re all new’ (last couple of months) along with the battery....chasing the problem
Q: Does it stutter but carry on past 3K or is it like hitting a wall
A: Continues past 3K
Q: When it stutters does the rev counter drop
A: No
Q: If you rev the car in neutral does it still stutter
A: Not that a can tell
Q: Is the temperature sensor reading normal
A: Normal Reading
Q: Oil, coolant levels and colours okay?
A: Oil and Coolant levels are OK, Oil is clear with no milkiness that might indicated a coolant leak into the engine

 

[koalar]

Great, we are moving forwards, plugs are a likely cause and that's next on you to do list

Cylinder one drivers side

Unfortunately a misfire does not tell you what's caused it, injectors, plug, compression, inlet possibly more

The good news you can read and clear your codes

I start by clearing the code and starting the engine at idle and make sure the code is properly cleared


Starting with the most likely, spark plug, if it looks okay swap it into another cylinder and take the car for a drive


If the fault follows the pug, you have your answer, if not try swapping two coils over and retest

I not had the 100hp but the 1.1 and 1.2 plugs start at 1mm gap and start to misbehave at 1.8mm and are fail fully at 2mm

 

[A3jeroen]

When my 100Hp had something similar I switched two coils. The problem persisted, but the code mentioned the other cilinder. Bought 4 new NGK coils, changed them and the car still drives perfect 3 years later.

gr J

 

[mikelawrencenz]

Spark plugs out (only 1300mi on them), and I could really see the difference in cyclinder 1's plug (miss fire code) and the rest...so they all get replaced, jumbled the coils around on install. Fired her up. no error codes Took her to a 40mile blast across country all seems well and happy.

Thanks to everyone for all the help, special shout out to @koalar, very much appreciated

 

[mikelawrencenz]

Spoke to soon Problem is back. No engine light yet, but I'll check for error codes today.

Could is be a sign of a old timing belt, it's getting to the mileage since it was last changed ??

 

[koalar]

Check the code and see if it's the same

P0301

Swap the coil with cylinder 3 and see if the fault is

P0301 or change to P0303

 

[koalar]

Spoke to soon Problem is back. No engine light yet, but I'll check for error codes today.

Could is be a sign of a old timing belt, it's getting to the mileage since it was last changed ??

Unlikely

A misfire on one cylinder is normally something connected to that cylinder

 

[mikelawrencenz]

So ran the Diagnostics a few times this week, and now getting a P0130 Error Code (H02S O2 Oxygen Sensor Bank-1 Sensor-1) which is slightly flummoxing because thats tha O2 sensor I replaced when chasing the "Threads subject" in the beginning.

The lumpiness when accelerating (slightly aggressively) is not consistently alway present, but a have notice a consistent an intermittent lump while at idol

Should I start looking to cracks in the manifold up to the CAT ? Soapy water test?

 

[koalar]

So ran the Diagnostics a few times this week, and now getting a P0130 Error Code (H02S O2 Oxygen Sensor Bank-1 Sensor-1) which is slightly flummoxing because thats tha O2 sensor I replaced when chasing the "Threads subject" in the beginning.

The lumpiness when accelerating (slightly aggressively) is not consistently alway present, but a have notice a consistent an intermittent lump while at idol

Should I start looking to cracks in the manifold up to the CAT ? Soapy water test?

Leave it with me for a bit

The error codes online are generic

Sometimes they are slightly different depending on manufacture or model

I have lost my list

 

[koalar]

This error is detected if the Vs+, Vs-/Ip-, Ip- input is short-circuited to +Vbatt. Or if the Vs-/Ip- input circuit is open

The error is directly connected to the upstream O2 sensor or its wiring

What does the O2 sensor live data look like

Here's mine

The two sensors are identical you could swap them over if they come out easy enough


Needs sorting as you will be using a lot more petrol than normal

 

[mikelawrencenz]

Well its been a few weeks of fighting with the Panda, I took The H2 sensor (Bank 1) out checked the the sensor head and the electrical connector, all seemed well. Checked the cylinder 1 spark plug and was looking a bit knacked, so I replaced it (the rest were fine).

I did notice a split in the hose the comes from the top of the cyclinder head into the Air intake (Pic below), on fixing the hose I also noticed it was full of gunge, real greasy deposits, so cleaned that too. Put it all pack together and happy days.....

Spoke too soon again P0130; Circuit Malfunction H2 Sensor & P0301; misfire in bank-1 are back and the engine light is on again

On my interwebs searching I saw people have similar issue mentioned it might be the relay for the H2 Sensor heating mechanism might be buggered, is that a thing on the Panda?? Does anyone know where I might fine that relay ?

 

[koalar]

Well its been a few weeks of fighting with the Panda, I took The H2 sensor (Bank 1) out checked the the sensor head and the electrical connector, all seemed well. Checked the cylinder 1 spark plug and was looking a bit knacked, so I replaced it (the rest were fine).

I did notice a split in the hose the comes from the top of the cyclinder head into the Air intake (Pic below), on fixing the hose I also noticed it was full of gunge, real greasy deposits, so cleaned that too. Put it all pack together and happy days.....

View attachment 435635

Spoke too soon again P0130; Circuit Malfunction H2 Sensor & P0301; misfire in bank-1 are back and the engine light is on again

On my interwebs searching I saw people have similar issue mentioned it might be the relay for the H2 Sensor heating mechanism might be buggered, is that a thing on the Panda?? Does anyone know where I might fine that relay ?

You still have the same problem as post 13

Theres no relay on these cars

The breather is not your problem

You need to swap the up stream O2 with the down stream O2


If the code changes the fault is the sensor, if the code is the same it's something else