Well the 1.2 in my mk3 Panda 4x4 has 156 CO2 and a new 1.2 is 120 CO2. The cost of tax is £180 v £30 so whatever they did to fiddle (sorry, change
) the results, it would be nice to backdate it!
General Is the twinair engine worth then£1200 premium
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General Is the twinair engine worth then£1200 premium
Well the 1.2 in my mk3 Panda 4x4 has 156 CO2 and a new 1.2 is 120 CO2. The cost of tax is £180 v £30 so whatever they did to fiddle (sorry, change
) the results, it would be nice to backdate it!
The 1.2 FIRE in the Panda has had at least three significant 'upgrades' since 2007.
There's the 60HP Euro4 engine, used in the ecoPanda until late 2010 - the main difference from the 2007 model is they run on thinner fully synthetic oil & ecotyres and just squeeze into the £30 band at 119g/km.
Then there's the 69HP Euro5 engine, used in the last of the Mk3's and, until recently, the Mk4. Higher compression ratio, vvt (for emissions, not power), and 6g/km less CO2 @ 113g/km in the Mk3 Panda (but still in the £30 tax band). This enabled Fiat to fit alloys to the last of the Mk3's, and still keep the £30 RFL. Downsides are the power band is higher up the rev range; lower down, where it matters most, it actually produces less power than the 60HP engine it replaced. Also it's no longer a fail-safe design, so regular cambelt changes are more important on this engine.
Current cars have the 69HP Euro6 engine; this appears to have a new interlink between the clutch and the engine ECU which has changed the way the car drives when pulling away - this is currently an issue for some, though not all, new owners.
IMO the 60HP Euro4 is the best of the lot; £30 RFL, fail safe & better bottom end torque than the later revisions. Great economy, too; I've averaged over 55mpg in more than 50,000 miles of trouble-free motoring with this engine.
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Very interesting!
Have to admit I'm happy I sold the 1.2, having lots of fun with the 175bhp mjet haha ?
Moultoneer
Member
Edit: CO2 is 99 for the T/A unless it's 114 in the T/A 4x4!!
Just to add to the confusion, in the Trekking the TA emits 105g/km
As for the Tax Disc, I've removed mine. Nice to have a clear screen
Chris
babbo_umbro
Established member
Just to add to the confusion, in the Trekking the TA emits 105g/km
As for the Tax Disc, I've removed mine. Nice to have a clear screen
Chris
Trekking only has five speeds, same ride height and tyres as the 4x4, but it doesn't have the losses and weight of 4wd - logical that it sits between the 2wd and the 4x4.
babbo_umbro
Established member
Agree - Mrs b_u has one of the last of the Eco 4-engined Pandas and it's a really sound, untemperamental engine, with a sensible torque curve - she gets about 49mpg around Devon.
I will never buy a TwinAir, much happier with my 1.2 ltr, a much more civilized engine IMHO.
Moultoneer
Member
But to me, civilized is just boring
I like the TA's uncouth nature when provoked, its racket is
accompanied by real power and torque, so justifies itself
However, when cruising at constant speed it does quieten
down markedly, so the noise and vibrations aren't always
present
(In the Trekking, top (5th) gear is usefully high)And driven with care, decent fuel economy is possible!
Chris
TwinAir Newbie
Member
Each to their own and if the 1.2 or the 1.4 (do they still make that?) keep you happy then all well and good.
As I have mentioned before, it took me all of 100 yards on the test drive of the TA to go for that rather than the 1.2.
Just pootling down to the shops, even just starting up the engine is a fun thing.
As I have mentioned before, it took me all of 100 yards on the test drive of the TA to go for that rather than the 1.2.
Just pootling down to the shops, even just starting up the engine is a fun thing.
1.2 sound much better, has a lot less vibrations, and does not give you the idea having a car with a lawnmower engine under the bonnet.
TwinAir Newbie
Member
1.2 sound much better, has a lot less vibrations, and does not give you the idea having a car with a lawnmower engine under the bonnet.
As I said, each to their own.
If you like your car great, but there's no need to knock another's choice.
babbo_umbro
Established member
Well, we've had an MJ and a 100HP in the past and currently have a last-of the Eouro4 1.2s and a 4x4 TA so I have a pretty wide experience of all the variants. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. The MJ is a great little workhorse but it does have a narrow effective rev band; its better economy is offset by higher maintenance than the 1.2 and 1.4, by high front tyre wear and a nose heavy feel to drive; economy pays off if you do a lot of miles and/or live on the Continent where diesel is cheaper than petrol in most countries; 59 mpg. I really liked the 1.4; smooth even when slogging at low revs but a little short of mid-range torque, quite pokey, good fun if you keep it revving but needs less gear stirring than the MJ; 39 mpg. 1.2 is a really sweet little unit, the Euro4 is flexible and smooth with no real vices, modest performance and short of grunt on long runs or if the car's loaded, cheap to keep, 49 mpg. The TA is an unusual little motor; takes some getting used to but has character, excellent torque curve, even the 4x4 - with its extra weight and so on - is as nippy as the 1.4 unless you really keep the latter spinning; twin cylinder-ness not to everyone's taste, but you can either ignore it or enjoy it; smooth cruiser at any speed from 60 to 90+ mph; 40 mpg.
Drove a TA with a TMC Tuning Box the other day - probably about 100bhp and an additional 20 or so ft/torx - and my word, what a fun thing that was! So much more pull in the 3-5000rpm range and very much more responsive, yet just as civilised on a cruise. In fact the ECO mode in that car felt like normal on a non-TMC'd engine, so ECO-Off effectively became a 'Sport' button I guess. Reports suggest that economy improves too, provided you don't use the extra performance (or leave it in ECO all the time instead perhaps?). Not for everyone of course, but an interesting exercise all the same....
TwinAir Newbie
Member
Interesting- I'm looking into that.
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babbo_umbro
Established member
That is interesting and needs to be investigated. There was some traffic a while ago about the Magneti Marelli tuning box but I don't recall seeing any specific results.
I doubt it would matter. You may recall that I had the supercharged 1.2 4x4 in previous 169-shape and that was fine on the stock clutch, despite going from 59bhp/76torx on the rollers to 110bhp/103torx.
I would be interested to drive the new 105 TA in the 500 as a comparison to that TMC'd 85 TA....
