General Is a panda diesel going to be good enough in town?

[jrkitching]

Probably not, but then, it can take up to 30 minutes to do that 2miles. It`s during rush hour (why do they call it "rush hour" when it`s almost stationery? :devil

Why call it "rush hour" when it only lasts 30 mins .

In some parts of London, "rush day" might be more appropriate .

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Why call it "rush hour" when it only lasts 30 mins .

In some parts of London, "rush day" might be more appropriate .

It does make me laugh, when we moved to eEst Anglia from London we used to laugh at what they call traffic jams on the radio here, it's what you'd call free flowing traffic at 9pm in central London. Half the locals wouldn't be able to make it to the outskirts of the M25 let alone survive driving inside it

 

[Enfield]

I dont travel in London, we are a town outside London, traffic is not bad, i work 800 metres from home and travel 8 miles a day for work, normally 3 or 4 different trips making it 8 miles.....i go through all the gears, its not stop start

 

[JD82]

Since all the threads my Panda is now running perfectly but I have calculated my MPG at 33mpg. Most of that is stuck in traffic but does that sound really poor? I rarely get to drive more than a quarter of a mile without getting stuck at a traffic light for example.

It is all innercity and south Manchester driving.

This thread has just got me wondering again. If it was running rich would it automatically fail the emissions test? I normally have my tyres at 30psi is that is what the manual says, would I better pumping them up to 35?

 

[JD82]

Talk of this thermostat has got me wondering, in winter it takes around 2 miles for the heater to work properly (e.g full heat) and torque pro reports the coolant temperature to be around 82c when its 'hot'. Does 82c seem too cool?

I assume I can test for a stuck open thermostat by feeling a pipe when the engine is cold and feeling there is no coolant going through it but where is the thermostat on the Panda?

 

[captainslarty]

Talk of this thermostat has got me wondering, in winter it takes around 2 miles for the heater to work properly (e.g full heat) and torque pro reports the coolant temperature to be around 82c when its 'hot'. Does 82c seem too cool?

I assume I can test for a stuck open thermostat by feeling a pipe when the engine is cold and feeling there is no coolant going through it but where is the thermostat on the Panda?

Hi Jd
I think reading fora like these is akin to reading a home 'terminal disease' novel... - or searching for 'headache' on the emptynet and coming back with a 99% chance of cancer of the big toe....

A car, any car, no matter what even the great Jezza says, will take longer to reach a given temperature the colder it is outside. 82 is possibly low, I dont know what thermostat was fitted originally. If you are in doubt, test it by sticking it in a pan of water and heat it up... (hang it on a piece of string else you will probably get cancer of the finger and drooping phalanges syndrome.....)
Use thermometer to test heat of water and visually see opening of unit.
If not as per spec (it is often stamped on the unit) then get new one.
But yes, it is probably ok. Sounds fine to me. however, I want a magic thermostat that somehow makes it cooler without humidity increasing and fuel consuming 'climate control' :devil:

 

[Goudrons]

Mine warms and hovers to around mid 80's.

As a rules, it starts up drives around 1 mile and the gauge is just getting off the stopper (1/8) and starting to climb (with a little heat out of the heater)

3 miles and it's half way where it stays and the heater is toasty.

I winter with the heater on, it'll run cooler as the heater matrix works like another radiator, bleeding heat out of the coolant and lowering the coolant temp, so for me, it's unusal for it to kick the fans in unless I'm in cronic traffic for some time.

Thermostats have a bypass in them, so they will bleed a tiny bit of hot coolant past them before them open, but starting the car from cold, let it idle and it should be some time before the top hose near the rad or the rad it's self starts to get hot.

They're pretty cheap, so if one is suspect, it not unheard of just to replace it.

All this is for petrols, diesels are more thermo - efficient and slower to heat.
Manufacturers have divised ways of speeding up the warm up, aux heaters in the coolant (glow plug type thing) that will heat the coolant before the heater like my Jag and diverting coolant to the oil cooler to help warm/cool the oil depending on what's needed.

On the same trip to work my Jag diesel will register a 1/4 of what the Panda does, my Combo Diesel actually reads nothing at all, it takes twice as far again, just to get the gauge to move (and it's had a new 'stat)

This
"I dont travel in London, we are a town outside London, traffic is not bad, i work 800 metres from home and travel 8 miles a day for work, normally 3 or 4 different trips making it 8 miles....."
ain't good for mpg.

You're basically driving 800 metres with it "open loop" and fueling rich.
Then driving 2 miles, again most of it "open loop" and fueling rich, four more times as I'm guessing it'll cool off enough in between each trip to warrant another cool/cold start up.

Then diriving 800 metres home again.

It's almost identical to what ours does and that returns around 37 or 38 mpg in the winter and around 40 in the summer.

BTW, MIRA engineers did a test for one of the motoring press (whatcar I think) about what effects MPG, low tyre pressures didn't really make a noticable difference. Weight and driving style did, I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Goudrons]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/31861/mpg-mythbusters

 

[captainslarty]

thermostats, 88 diesel 87 petrol +/- 2 deg C, also there will be probably 5% discrepancy on reading over canbus due to different temp sensor tolerances..
82, is probably fine... for marine, I use a laser pointed infra red digital temp sensor direct on the block or into the header tank , another useful piece of kit, only about 30 squids.. had it years.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Talk of this thermostat has got me wondering, in winter it takes around 2 miles for the heater to work properly (e.g full heat) and torque pro reports the coolant temperature to be around 82c when its 'hot'. Does 82c seem too cool?

IMO yes, should sit about 88-89C with fan kicking in about 92C iirc.

 

[JD82]

Need to round to Screwfix later but I will go to one of my furthest away ones which is a good 7 mile drive. I will hopefully not use the heater and I will use Torque Pro. Hopefully then I will have an idea. When I checked the temp last time I wasn't real looking at the coolant temperature so I had heating on etc.

Also 7 miles in traffic should be enough to heat up.

 

[thebiglad]

Talk of this thermostat has got me wondering, in winter it takes around 2 miles for the heater to work properly (e.g full heat) and torque pro reports the coolant temperature to be around 82c when its 'hot'. Does 82c seem too cool?

I assume I can test for a stuck open thermostat by feeling a pipe when the engine is cold and feeling there is no coolant going through it but where is the thermostat on the Panda?

Assuming yours is a petrol (the only one I'm familiar with) the thermostat housing is directly underneath the distributor, on the RH end of the engine head.

Have a look here, only about a tenner and ten mins work:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...ostat&_nkw=Fiat+Panda+1.1+thermostat&_sacat=0


Dave

 

[thebiglad]

Need to round to Screwfix later but I will go to one of my furthest away ones which is a good 7 mile drive. I will hopefully not use the heater and I will use Torque Pro. Hopefully then I will have an idea. When I checked the temp last time I wasn't real looking at the coolant temperature so I had heating on etc.

Also 7 miles in traffic should be enough to heat up.

My wife's 2001 1.1 Panda heats up quickly; within one mile there is heat coming through the heater into the car. I know that's not the full engine warm-up, but it does indicate that the 'stat is working - closed initially to aid warm-up.


Dave

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Assuming yours is a petrol (the only one I'm familiar with) the thermostat housing is directly underneath the distributor, on the RH end of the engine head.

Coil packs on most of the Panda's now, was the classic ones that had the distributor above the thermostat

 

[thebiglad]

Coil packs on most of the Panda's now, was the classic ones that had the distributor above the thermostat

OK so how does that affect access to the 'stat and it's housing? On the 1.2 engined cars, is it still matter of replacing the whole housing inc. the 'stat; or can you just replace the 'stat?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

OK so how does that affect access to the 'stat and it's housing? On the 1.2 engined cars, is it still matter of replacing the whole housing inc. the 'stat; or can you just replace the 'stat?

I think you can replace just the stat, but personally I always change the housing also.

Whole thing including housing and gasket from main Fiat Dealer was only £20-£25 when I last bought one.

 

[captainslarty]

IMO yes, should sit about 88-89C with fan kicking in about 92C iirc.

The temp read with an obd reader does not necessarily mean the actual engine temp is incorrect. The temps sensor value gives a reading that the ecu converts, the thermostatic controlled value of the water temperature may well be different. In fact it almost certainly will by nature of the component tolerances.
I agree, it may well BE low, but it may also be ok. Only an accurate measurement of the water temp with a thermometer or infra red sensor will tell, or, test the thermostat in a pan of water.

ps, goodies arrived today Jon, Spot on sir..

Cap. Joe.

 

[thebiglad]

The temp read with an obd reader does not necessarily mean the actual engine temp is incorrect. The temps sensor value gives a reading that the ecu converts, the thermostatic controlled value of the water temperature may well be different. In fact it almost certainly will by nature of the component tolerances.
I agree, it may well BE low, but it may also be ok. Only an accurate measurement of the water temp with a thermometer or infra red sensor will tell, or, test the thermostat in a pan of water.

ps, goodies arrived today Jon, Spot on sir..

Cap. Joe.

Well I'm sorry Cap'n but it seems to me like you've got completely the wrong end of the stick, by worrying about a degree here or there.

The engine in question has a real problem, it never gets up to normal operating temperature, as evidenced by the fact that the temp gauge never leaves it's stop and the owner is frightened of using the heater (a big strongpoint in Pandas) because he believes it will slow down the warming up of the engine itself.

All practical experience points to a thermostat being faulty - but not you. You have to fart on about inconsequentials confusing the owners who are looking for simple clear answers.

Please,please stop and think. Think about the needs of others rather than just showing off your non-existent 'knowledge'.

 

[captainslarty]

Well I'm sorry Cap'n but it seems to me like you've got completely the wrong end of the stick, by worrying about a degree here or there.

The engine in question has a real problem, it never gets up to normal operating temperature, as evidenced by the fact that the temp gauge never leaves it's stop and the owner is frightened of using the heater (a big strongpoint in Pandas) because he believes it will slow down the warming up of the engine itself.

All practical experience points to a thermostat being faulty - but not you. You have to fart on about inconsequentials confusing the owners who are looking for simple clear answers.

Please,please stop and think. Think about the needs of others rather than just showing off your non-existent 'knowledge'.

I am confusing the person with another poster who said he got 82 degrees, even though, you don't have to be such a tw&t when responding - I will hold my hand up if I am wrong - you are just being a pratt - what is it, big lad, small brain. ?. sheesh...

 

[thebiglad]

I am confusing the person with another poster who said he got 82 degrees, even though, you don't have to be such a tw&t when responding - I will hold my hand up if I am wrong - you are just being a pratt - what is it, big lad, small brain. ?. sheesh...

It's not me who can't see the wood for the trees buddy. Personal insults? Very impressed.