General What is the Panda A5

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General What is the Panda A5

koalar

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Keep stumbling on videos of the Panda A5





There several about

I could not find any info on its specs

Was it a kit car, factory build

One video of in car footage shows a sequential gearbox, which I have now lost
 
There's quite a few about on youtube

Several yellow
Several red
A white one

Guessing, but no doubt if I new Italian, more info would be on their forums
 
This one is on the standard gearbox

Standard dash and instruments, yellow LEDs

Aftermarket steering wheel

Radio removed to add the rally equipment



Very few comments on the clips I can find so far
 
This one is a completely different beast

Custom carbon fiber dash, bespoke instruments

Flocked on the the top to reduce reflections and so on

Screenshot_20231123-183016.jpg



Bit more info on the arbarth version


Scroll through the photos, picture of the throttle bodies and 9 on a transporter


The rear suspension is modified, with both rear wheels there is no droop

The body shell has to remain standard

The car I posted earlier finished 7th out of 60 in it class
 
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This engine makes 155HP

Looks like an old punto 1.4 8V to me

There's no info but there is a video of the camshaft being reprofiled

And video of the bottom of the block being machined, no idea why

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Not cheap

A competitive car is nearly €30,000 and one of the original 12 arbarth is up at the moment for nearly an extra €100,000

The LSD alone is €999 couldn't find a price for the upgraded gearbox
 
Oh no there's several different versions

The top dog is the Panda Evo arbarth

Not a great write up but give an idea of what goes into one

This Panda Evo is a collector’s car. It is not to be confused with the Panda kits ex trophy or worse still, with the Panda kits replica and not official, as I will describe in detail in the following lines. Of the Panda Evo, also called 'Super Panda', only 2 have been built in the world, with a very high cost of design, testing and fische approval, but we know that with rare cars this is normal. I have the manufacturer's certificate, which certifies that they have only built two of this spies in the whole world, approving them. The car on sale were commissioned by Fiat Auto Corse/ Abarth and assembled by Supergara, which was the structure that studied and assembled all the cars for the various trophies, such as the Fiat 500 trophy, Fiat Auto Corse trophy with the Fiat 600 kits and the Panda Kit trophy. The car was then also presented at the Lingotto in Turin.

The car is license plated and designed to be a rally car, but it can also compete uphill, slalom or race on the track. Since the purchase, the car was dismantled by experienced staff and brought body-off. Engine was rebuilt new from scratch, with complete new Abarth head, pistons moulded from fische, etc. The gearbox was overhauled by its manufacturer and refurbished, new drive shafts etc. Restored from scratch with all the necessary new parts, with a very careful reassembly lasted almost 2 years of work (please see photographs of restoration). The certificate lists all the differences between the Panda Evo and a Panda kit ex trophy. For example, the Marelli electronic control unit and the Marelli digital board are from the Punto Abarth super 2000, costing 8000 euros, the roll-bar reaches up to the domes, the braking system is a 4 Ap Racing pumping units of over 3000 euros, and not that of the Fiat Stilo that mount the Trophy versions. The torsion bar is not fixed and under the car, but it goes through the engine and has a blade with 5 adjustments. The car is 85 kg lighter than a Panda kit, it is fitted with a sequential 6-speed gearbox for €10,000 and not a front linkage.

The engine has been lightened with more than 2 kg Ergal pulleys etc. and studied at the bench. The Trophy Panda cars deliver 118 hp and they are single-throttle, this engine exceeds 150 hp at 7,900 rpm with more than 19 kg of torque, costing over 15,000 euros and not 4,000 like the kits. It mounts 4 extremely rare throttle bodies worth 3500 euros. The front pillars are made of Ergal and interchangeable, cost 900 euros each. The exhaust studied at the test bench to gain 3 points in horsepower and lower the weight cost 4000 euros. Adjustable pedals 1800 euros, it has assisted start. The front brackets are two centimetres longer per side as the the drive shafts to widen the track 3800 euros, the displacement has been increased from 1242 cc to 1388 cc. The electrical system has been lightened and divided between services and engine 3700 euros, the clutch is not a cable clutch but a hydraulic one 2,500. The steering column has been moved back by 60 mm to have an ideal barycentre. The hydraulic power steering is adjustable in hardness according to the special tests 1200 euros.

In addition to these costs, it is also necessary to add the special rims that are mounted on the car to cool down the Ap Racing braking system and not to get stuck with self-ventilated disc brakes. 12 rims purchase 4000 euros. In addition to the list of some of the differences, a huge cost went to approve in fische all these differences/improvements, in addition to the very outfitting of the car from the Sparco resolution in super light electric aluminium 700 euros, to the especially made Ergal seat brackets 700 euros, all the Ergal bolts mounted 1800 euros, to the carbon panels mounted on the front and rear doors, central console and driver's footboards and navigation 1900 euros, Sparco belts, Sparco seats, 2000 euros, hydraulic super light handbrake system, 1400 euros, Ap front and rear brakeforce distribution 600 euros, race gel battery 250 euros, adjustable distribution with tanks 5000 euros.

This is part of the difference with Trophy Panda kits and the cost of assembling this wonderful, exciting and powerful car. Currently the car has travelled 300 km, with first a break-in and mapping of the new engine on the bench, from the best mapper in Italy, Gabella. The first-owner car is by Super Gara, a department that works on the development of all Fiat Auto Corse / Abarth cars. Currently it has the Martini livery, (with decals) beautiful, used for the last rally held in Como, winning with a 1st of A5 class and closing with a 20th place in the national championship.

Very admired and photographed car, extremely competitive and powerful. It was driven by important drivers and it also participated in the rally in Sanremo. Permission was also required to be included as a rally car in a real professional driving simulator (see 2 photos). Even if the car is in excellent condition.
 
Supergara prepared a number of different versions of the Panda to Group A5 - which was the FIA category for modified road-going cars up to 1400cc

There was the 1242cc Panda Rally Cup car with 130bhp @ 7800rpm, 6 speed 'box and 60mm wider track: http://www.italiaspeed.com/new_models/2006/fiat/panda/rally.html

Also 1388cc Panda Rally Evoluzione with 157bhp : http://www.italiaspeed.com/2007/motor_shows/autosport_international/fiat/panda_evoluzione/1501.html

That white Mikado car you linked is also listed as 'ex Usine (Factory) Fiat Abarth Supergara'.

I don't know if Supergara had any official backing from FIAT, so maybe 'ex Factory' just means 'ex Supergara'? Very little info on Supergara's site.

Presumably there were other independent outfits preparing 1.2 or 1.4 Pandas to go rallying - which would make them Group A5, but specifications may very considerably.

I've also seen reference to an A5K Panda - A5 Kit car
 
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Cool information there @rmjbn1

Now I started looking

The panda was used quite alot abroad for motorsports and had its on race series

Screenshot_20231125_121515.jpg


There's a Polish company supporting some car Jurczak Auto Sport


There website is rubbish but the Facebook has some interesting information


b_c7f4205377b1e07bb8136d9b810d0a9b.jpg

And
6.jpg


I am curious as to which block and head is used, obviously 8V

It has the square oil filler and seperate oil rail to the camshaft bearings

There mention that they used an arbarth head. Was there an arbarth small engine 8V none turbo.

Anyhow beyond my means, custom machining, custom ECU I doubt there would be change from £10K

Its interesting to see how they got 155HP tested out of the 1388 fire on a single throttle body and 162HP estimated on 4x T/B


The block is machined at the bottom, seen a video, unfortunately not enough detail to see for what. Bearing caps?

Should be shed loads of information if you speak Polish or Italian and can search on their forums
 
Wonder what they are like on the road

That's a seriously lightened flywheel and competition clutch


But the camshaft lobes are still quite pointy, I suspect it still would still have lowdown torque


I guess for rallying you would need a wider power band than for a race track car
 
Mybe we need a tuning thread with everything we know is possible, At the moment I know very little "facts"

Rolling road of a 1.2 with a full race exhaust and decat made about 3bhp, that was only at the top end and is within the margin of error

On a rolling road a 1.2 with a performance k&n airfilter lost a few bhp but again within the margin of error

A 100HP engine is a straight swap except for the exhaust into a 4x4, but you need to change everything, body computer, wiring loom, ECU, dash and so on from a donar vehicle info here

A T-Jet can be spliced into the original wiring and is possible the cheapest option. The pandadaptor info is here
 
I'm slightly involved in a (slow moving) project to put a T-Jet into a 100hp. It's been done quite a few times now, but there still seem to be lots of dubious (at least to me) answers about what to use from the donor car (subframe, steering rack, front suspension etc.).
So far front end/engine/gearbox/subframe are out of the 100hp, and the wrecked 595 is sitting patiently awaiting stripdown. Pandapter and Bravo ECU sat on shelf.
The Pandapter seems like a nice bit of kit - not cheap, but appears to be a good plug-and-play option, although it apparently needs a Bravo ECU in preference to the one out of the 595 donor.
Don't think it'll move forward much before spring now, as it's fighting for space with other stuff, but if anyone want to create a definitive thread I would definitely be interested. Would be happy to add pictures and text once the build progresses.
Might even consider making an A5 "tribute" car for myself once this one is out of the way - I like the look of the A5 a lot, but not so much the highly tuned engine - parts prices way beyond what I could justify.
 
Rolling road of a 1.2 with a full race exhaust and decat made about 3bhp, that was only at the top end and is within the margin of error
With the introduction of the Euro5 engine, Fiat found another 9BHP from the 60HP 1.2 just by adding VVT & upping the compression slightly.
A 100HP engine is a straight swap except for the exhaust into a 4x4, but you need to change everything, body computer, wiring loom, ECU, dash and so on from a donar vehicle info here
I'd have thought putting in a 1.4 engine would be more cost effective than trying to tune a 1.2. Also, this opens up the world of 1.4 tuning, which is much better served by the aftermarket. The limitation then will probably be your budget.
 
It appears that most of with an older 8V blocks, there must be a reason

1242cc to 130bhp
1388cc to 160bhp

Is it a 1.2 bored out or a 1.4 from another model

Might have something to do with the regs


The factory built 12 I posted earlier were built from a 1.2L

Which makes sense as engine, dials, ECU, wiring, brakes, suspenstion are taken out

Here's the baseline
1.1
1.2
1.2 VVT
1.4

From Fiats engine dyno
No I don't know what the shading is

IMG_20231127_144923.jpg
IMG_20231127_145110.jpg

IMG_20231127_145649.png
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