Technical Fuel Cut Off Unavailable - Airbag Failure - 2013 Fiat Panda POP - Australia

[mervaxian]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone know where the fuel cut off switch is on these cars?

I've got a message on my dash that says "Fuel Cut Off Unavailable" "Airbag Failure" and the big red airbag light has come on.

The car still works, it starts and runs

This happened a day after the car had a its gearbox and clutch changed. (It cost a fortune!) The dealer says that its a different issue and that they are not related?

Could they or he have bumped the switch by accident? We did have lots of heavy things rolling around in the back when it happened...

We took it back to dealership, they said it was an airbag module that needs replacing. $1200+ AUD for parts and labour.

I just want to check this first before going ahead with the dealers fix.

I've called so many places, but it seems that there are not many Fiat Panda's in Australia and no other workshop wants to look at it.

Are we being taken for a ride? = (

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Merv

 

[bugsymike]

Ideally you want someone with the fiat multiscan program.
I did have a similar issue which showed the same errors on the dashboard on my daughters 2012 Punto Evo, on hers the fault was a passenger seat load sensor, however due to a previous owners repair, fitting a new sensor didn't fix it.
The theory is if something is changed due to a fault then the new part in the airbag system, from seat sensors, seat belt pretensioners any of the airbags etc. all have to be recognised by the system using a program called "proxi alignment" . If you have the "multiscan" program and associated leads you can do the alignment then clear any old error codes from a laptop. In my case the poor previous repair damaged the Air Bag Module , I managed to get a new one , then run the "proxi alignment " from my friends Snap On Zeus Diagnostic tool and solve the issue. If car was alright before garage visit I would suggest a conversation with them How do they "know" it is unrelated without running the "proxi alignment" part of the diagnostic test? What error codes came up?
There are lots of people on the this Forum who are more familiar with the Fiat Multiscan program than me, who can advise.
My thoughts are if garage won't help carry on driving (assuming you are not intending to use the airbags ) and buy the Multiscan program and run some tests to see what is required if you cannot get good help locally!

 

[mervaxian]

Ideally you want someone with the fiat multiscan program.
I did have a similar issue which showed the same errors on the dashboard on my daughters 2012 Punto Evo, on hers the fault was a passenger seat load sensor, however due to a previous owners repair, fitting a new sensor didn't fix it.
The theory is if something is changed due to a fault then the new part in the airbag system, from seat sensors, seat belt pretensioners any of the airbags etc. all have to be recognised by the system using a program called "proxi alignment" . If you have the "multiscan" program and associated leads you can do the alignment then clear any old error codes from a laptop. In my case the poor previous repair damaged the Air Bag Module , I managed to get a new one , then run the "proxi alignment " from my friends Snap On Zeus Diagnostic tool and solve the issue. If car was alright before garage visit I would suggest a conversation with them How do they "know" it is unrelated without running the "proxi alignment" part of the diagnostic test? What error codes came up?
There are lots of people on the this Forum who are more familiar with the Fiat Multiscan program than me, who can advise.
My thoughts are if garage won't help carry on driving (assuming you are not intending to use the airbags ) and buy the Multiscan program and run some tests to see what is required if you cannot get good help locally!

HI,

Thanks for your reply, that's really helpful.

They did show me a few pages of diagnostics they did on the computer, but I have no idea what I was reading.

Apparently there was no signal coming from the airbag unit so that's what they think it was.

It's not an issue for us having this light on, but the car won't pass the registration unless that light and error message disappears.

I'll keep ringing around, but at this stage looks like they are the only one that can actually fix the issue.

 

[bugsymike]

HI,

Thanks for your reply, that's really helpful.

They did show me a few pages of diagnostics they did on the computer, but I have no idea what I was reading.

Apparently there was no signal coming from the airbag unit so that's what they think it was.

It's not an issue for us having this light on, but the car won't pass the registration unless that light and error message disappears.

I'll keep ringing around, but at this stage looks like they are the only one that can actually fix the issue.

Do you know what diagnostic tool they use, if it is a fairly late Snap On it may be able to do the "proxi alignment for your car if you enter the vin number etc. It only took me 25 minutes and I had never used it before, so it's possible you may not need to buy anything like a new airbag just tell it to recognise it! When they disconnected the battery there is a sequence to doing it with "stop start" models, if that was not followed it maybe why you have the issue
It wouldn't have passed our yearly MOT test either.
If you can locate an Australian multiscan user local to you they may be able to help economically. Failing that it may be worth your while looking into getting the program and cable to suit. Look it up on the internet. Regards Mike

 

[mervaxian]

Hi,

Ah, that's really cool. Might be worth trying this myself...

I found a place in Aus that sells the correct cables... Can anyone confirm if it's the ones I would need for multiscan software?

Alfa & Fiat OBD2 MultiECUScan Adaptor Cable Set – OBD2 Australia

obd2australia.com.au

VAG COM VCDS Diagnostic Cable - OBD K Line

Our VAG-COM cable is a high-quality interface that works with the VCDS software for VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda vehicles from 1995 - 2005 (Newer models see here). The software will allow you to find & clear faults, view vehicle data and become a full diagnostic tool if you have the correct level...

obd2australia.com.au

Cheers, Merv

 

[bugsymike]

Hi,

Ah, that's really cool. Might be worth trying this myself...

I found a place in Aus that sells the correct cables... Can anyone confirm if it's the ones I would need for multiscan software?

Alfa & Fiat OBD2 MultiECUScan Adaptor Cable Set – OBD2 Australia

obd2australia.com.au

VAG COM VCDS Diagnostic Cable - OBD K Line

Our VAG-COM cable is a high-quality interface that works with the VCDS software for VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda vehicles from 1995 - 2005 (Newer models see here). The software will allow you to find & clear faults, view vehicle data and become a full diagnostic tool if you have the correct level...

obd2australia.com.au

Cheers, Merv

I don't use the Fiat Multiscan program as it is Windows based and I use Linux unfortunately, but I am sure there are many on this Forum who can give you good advice re this especially if you are running the car long term it will be a useful tool.
However the VAG Com cable you mentioned is not for Fiat but VW as far as I know and it does appear if you are going to use Multiscan the quality of cabling is critical from what I have read. If you "google" gendan + Fiat or fiat multiscan they should be able to help. Gendan is the UK supplier but they should know one nearer you or the multiscan company themselves.
Failing this, do you have a good local garage with the Snap On Zeus or similar Tool, after putting in my Vin. Chassis number I was able to sort my problem quickly with that tool. Mike

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Just to come back to potentially more 'mechanical' causes: all the electronic units that control the airbags are sited on the floor of the car at the back ((engine end) of the centre console and under the heater unit. It is possible that a plug has been displaced there during work if they accessed anything (eg gear control cables, clutch pedal) from inside the car. All the relevant wires have yellow plastic sleeving on them to identify the are part of the 'Supplementary Restraint System' - or SRS. As well as under the heater, there are additional items in the plastic housings just at the front of the front seats, and further wiring under the seats themselves that connect to the seat belt buckles, pretensioners and any side airbags in the seats. DO NOT try unplugging anything. First, to prevent accidental firing of the airbags, disconnect the battery and wait 30 minutes before working on any part of the SRS system. Then its worth following each yellow-sleeved wire, especially beneath the centre console and around the pedal area to see if anything's not seated right.

There is not a 'physical' fuel cut off reset switch on the 2012-onward Panda (there was on the older model - a big red reset button under the front seat - but the later one its all controlled via the airbag computer). Similarly there is no longer a physical switch to turn off the passenger airbag (again, there used to be on teh previous model, a switch in the glovebox turned with the ignition key)

The MultiECU scan software needs a special, different lead (where the pin-to-pin wiring is altered) specifically to test the airbag system when connecting to the ODB diagnostic socket inside the car. I don't know if that would be case for other test systems - but would imagine it would be.

Yes, it may be you need a 'proxy realignment' - but (as I've said here before) sometimes the answer is a more 'physical' thing -- loose plug, broken wire etc. Worth a good look before spending money.

By the way although MultiECU is Windows based, there is also a version of it that runs under iOS on an Apple iPhone or iPad, via specific makes of bluetooth ODBII plugs

Link to MultiECU's creator's website: https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESPKG.html

Search the Apple App Store for the iPhone software - but needs the right ODB transmitter from Gendan ((seems not toe work with many cheap lookalikes)

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Just to come back to potentially more 'mechanical' causes: all the electronic units that control the airbags are sited on the floor of the car at the back ((engine end) of the centre console and under the heater unit. It is possible that a plug has been displaced there during work if they accessed anything (eg gear control cables, clutch pedal) from inside the car. All the relevant wires have yellow plastic sleeving on them to identify the are part of the 'Supplementary Restraint System' - or SRS. As well as under the heater, there are additional items in the plastic housings just at the front of the front seats, and further wiring under the seats themselves that connect to the seat belt buckles, pretensioners and any side airbags in the seats. DO NOT try unplugging anything. First, to prevent accidental firing of the airbags, disconnect the battery and wait 30 minutes before working on any part of the SRS system. Then its worth following each yellow-sleeved wire, especially beneath the centre console and around the pedal area to see if anything's not seated right.

There is not a 'physical' fuel cut off reset switch on the 2012-onward Panda (there was on the older model - a big red reset button under the front seat - but the later one its all controlled via the airbag computer). Similarly there is no longer a physical switch to turn off the passenger airbag (again, there used to be on teh previous model, a switch in the glovebox turned with the ignition key)

The MultiECU scan software needs a special, different lead (where the pin-to-pin wiring is altered) specifically to test the airbag system when connecting to the ODB diagnostic socket inside the car. I don't know if that would be case for other test systems - but would imagine it would be.

Yes, it may be you need a 'proxy realignment' - but (as I've said here before) sometimes the answer is a more 'physical' thing -- loose plug, broken wire etc. Worth a good look before spending money.

By the way although MultiECU is Windows based, there is also a version of it that runs under iOS on an Apple iPhone or iPad, via specific makes of bluetooth ODBII plugs

Link to MultiECU's creator's website: https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESPKG.html

Search the Apple App Store for the iPhone software - but needs the right ODB transmitter from Gendan ((seems not toe work with many cheap lookalikes)

This site has had the 'edit' time on a post listed to 15 minutes now! used to be three hours...
So, edit to my reply above: you say you had a lot of things rolling around in the back when it (the error showing) happened. In that case, take a close look at the SRS cables under the front seats. They are pretty small and look very vulnerable to damage from things being pushed under the seat. I have a hunch they are not all yellow sleeved under there... There are several: connection to the seat cushion to sense if someone's sat in it, one to the belt buckle on the side of the seat to see its clicked in, one at the outside edge of the seat to operate the belt tensioner that fires in an accident (metal tube connected to the steel wire cable on the bottom end of the bolt near the outermost seat runners, and also (if side airbags fitted in the seats) one to that too. I guess (but don't know for sure) these all find their way back to the black plastic box in the floor in front of the seats (never looked in there!)

ALSO, edit to MultiECU info: This from an email I had from from Gendan when asking what ODB plug in module I needed

"To use the iPhone version you need (in addition to the App which can only be obtained from the App store) you need this MX+ interface:
https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_OBDLINKMX.html

…and the yellow adaptor (for things like service reset)
https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESYELLOW.html "

For diagnosing airbag system codes you need the RED adaptor cable too.

There is a mistake in Gendan's website which seems to show a VAG cable in amongst the Fiat items page -- that is I think why it was mentioned in your earlier post...

 

[bugsymike]

Just to come back to potentially more 'mechanical' causes: all the electronic units that control the airbags are sited on the floor of the car at the back ((engine end) of the centre console and under the heater unit. It is possible that a plug has been displaced there during work if they accessed anything (eg gear control cables, clutch pedal) from inside the car. All the relevant wires have yellow plastic sleeving on them to identify the are part of the 'Supplementary Restraint System' - or SRS. As well as under the heater, there are additional items in the plastic housings just at the front of the front seats, and further wiring under the seats themselves that connect to the seat belt buckles, pretensioners and any side airbags in the seats. DO NOT try unplugging anything. First, to prevent accidental firing of the airbags, disconnect the battery and wait 30 minutes before working on any part of the SRS system. Then its worth following each yellow-sleeved wire, especially beneath the centre console and around the pedal area to see if anything's not seated right.

There is not a 'physical' fuel cut off reset switch on the 2012-onward Panda (there was on the older model - a big red reset button under the front seat - but the later one its all controlled via the airbag computer). Similarly there is no longer a physical switch to turn off the passenger airbag (again, there used to be on teh previous model, a switch in the glovebox turned with the ignition key)

The MultiECU scan software needs a special, different lead (where the pin-to-pin wiring is altered) specifically to test the airbag system when connecting to the ODB diagnostic socket inside the car. I don't know if that would be case for other test systems - but would imagine it would be.

Yes, it may be you need a 'proxy realignment' - but (as I've said here before) sometimes the answer is a more 'physical' thing -- loose plug, broken wire etc. Worth a good look before spending money.

By the way although MultiECU is Windows based, there is also a version of it that runs under iOS on an Apple iPhone or iPad, via specific makes of bluetooth ODBII plugs

Link to MultiECU's creator's website: https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESPKG.html

Search the Apple App Store for the iPhone software - but needs the right ODB transmitter from Gendan ((seems not toe work with many cheap lookalikes)

I agree with Herts hillhopper, also Gendan were very helpful, though I still haven't had a reply on my query with multiscan direct on the email Gendan gave me. My problem is, I like my Linux PC after many years of Windows based systems from DOS 6.2 and Win 3.11For WorkGroups up to Win7 for any old school computer users, I wouldn't go back. Re iPhone Apps. not being a youngster anymore I prefer a large screen as opposed to "looking through a letter box", hence I don't use a mobile phone . Though I fully understand the advantages of modern technology, apart from being at everyone's beck and call 24/7. When running my business my customers knew my opening times and regarding breakdowns outside of that, my argument was that if their cars were regularly serviced by me , they didn't breakdown, which proved to be the case.
It may be that diagnostics will point the search in the right direction and if you are looking at your car long term then the multiscan tool and the multiplexed version which I believe uses one lead to do everything would be a good investment bearing in mind the problems of local knowledge of your vehicle where you are based?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I agree with Herts hillhopper, also Gendan were very helpful, though I still haven't had a reply on my query with multiscan direct on the email Gendan gave me. My problem is, I like my Linux PC after many years of Windows based systems from DOS 6.2 and Win 3.11For WorkGroups up to Win7 for any old school computer users, I wouldn't go back. Re iPhone Apps. not being a youngster anymore I prefer a large screen as opposed to "looking through a letter box", hence I don't use a mobile phone . Though I fully understand the advantages of modern technology, apart from being at everyone's beck and call 24/7. When running my business my customers knew my opening times and regarding breakdowns outside of that, my argument was that if their cars were regularly serviced by me , they didn't breakdown, which proved to be the case.
It may be that diagnostics will point the search in the right direction and if you are looking at your car long term then the multiscan tool and the multiplexed version which I believe uses one lead to do everything would be a good investment bearing in mind the problems of local knowledge of your vehicle where you are based?

works on an iPad too - much bigger screen

Yes - multiplexed uses one lead and makes the pin-to-pin changes within the unit.

 

[bugsymike]

works on an iPad too - much bigger screen

Yes - multiplexed uses one lead and makes the pin-to-pin changes within the unit.

I do have an early iPad that was given to me, but I am set in my ways

 

[mervaxian]

Just to come back to potentially more 'mechanical' causes: all the electronic units that control the airbags are sited on the floor of the car at the back ((engine end) of the centre console and under the heater unit. It is possible that a plug has been displaced there during work if they accessed anything (eg gear control cables, clutch pedal) from inside the car. All the relevant wires have yellow plastic sleeving on them to identify the are part of the 'Supplementary Restraint System' - or SRS. As well as under the heater, there are additional items in the plastic housings just at the front of the front seats, and further wiring under the seats themselves that connect to the seat belt buckles, pretensioners and any side airbags in the seats. DO NOT try unplugging anything. First, to prevent accidental firing of the airbags, disconnect the battery and wait 30 minutes before working on any part of the SRS system. Then its worth following each yellow-sleeved wire, especially beneath the centre console and around the pedal area to see if anything's not seated right.

There is not a 'physical' fuel cut off reset switch on the 2012-onward Panda (there was on the older model - a big red reset button under the front seat - but the later one its all controlled via the airbag computer). Similarly there is no longer a physical switch to turn off the passenger airbag (again, there used to be on teh previous model, a switch in the glovebox turned with the ignition key)

The MultiECU scan software needs a special, different lead (where the pin-to-pin wiring is altered) specifically to test the airbag system when connecting to the ODB diagnostic socket inside the car. I don't know if that would be case for other test systems - but would imagine it would be.

Yes, it may be you need a 'proxy realignment' - but (as I've said here before) sometimes the answer is a more 'physical' thing -- loose plug, broken wire etc. Worth a good look before spending money.

By the way although MultiECU is Windows based, there is also a version of it that runs under iOS on an Apple iPhone or iPad, via specific makes of bluetooth ODBII plugs

Link to MultiECU's creator's website: https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESPKG.html

Search the Apple App Store for the iPhone software - but needs the right ODB transmitter from Gendan ((seems not toe work with many cheap lookalikes)Hi Hertsasdasdasd

Hi Herts,

This is very useful! I've had a look underneath both seats and all the cables look fine. Nothing is cut or loose. Now when I look underneath the passenger side I found this loose cable just dangling... I have no idea if its important or not and I can't figure out where it would actually be plugged into.

Are there any guides out there on how to remove the center console so I can take a look if there are any lose wires like you mentioned?

Cheers, Merv

 

[mervaxian]

Hi,

I pulled apart the passenger console and got a better photo. Hope this helps.

I looked everywhere and can't seem to find where this thing plugs into.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi,

I pulled apart the passenger console and got a better photo. Hope this helps.

I looked everywhere and can't seem to find where this thing plugs into.

View attachment 409375View attachment 409376

Be very careful around airbag wiring as has been mentioned, people have accidentally triggered airbags and died!!!
Reading the fault codes is important, even if you find a faulty plug or wire etc. the fault will still be there until the process with the diagnostic tool is followed correctly. It won't go away simply by replugging a wire, as my earlier piece re Punto Evo passenger seat sensor mentioned.