General Front spring broken

[glowplug]

My front left spring broke on the weekend whilst we were just slowly backing out our drive. Phoned Fiat on the Monday to tell them that my chassis number fell within the band allocated for recall in 2006. They then claimed the car had been done then but my service history shows the car had changed ownership in 2005, sold by a Nissan agent and then serviced by them until I bought it last year. They had no record of ever having done the springs.

Fiat refusing to accept that these items are not fit for purpose. They stated that it was my responsibility to get the car, at my expense, to a Fiat agent to been seen. What absolute rot. They produce substandard products it is up to them to collect fix and return at no expense to me. My car has only done 62K and in 2006 according to the records had done 30K. I have been a mechanic for 25 years and have never, not even on rally cars, known springs to break.

I have ordered a new set off eBay for £70 and have done them myself

I certainly will never buy Fiat again and intend to seek legal advice on taking up the "fit for purpose" argument with Fiat. My advice is think twice before buying Italian cars.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Lots of (front) springs break these days, and not only Fiat I'm afraid...! ( Citroen, Opel)
My advise is to fit aftermarket (perhaps slightly lowering) springs from a well known (tuning) brand, and stay away from original factory springs....

 

[VII CKS]

Agreed with Peter above, our Vauxhall had a couple of snapped springs.
Best is to upgrade to an aftermarket kit like Spax anyway.

 

[glowplug]

Well then I suppose it is because I have spent the bulk of my life working on Japanese cars that I haven't run into this. I can honestly say that in all my time working on Honda, Toyota and Nissan I personally have never nor do I know of any of my peers that have had to replace a broken spring. Perhaps it does happen but I have never seen it.

I used to rally classic ford escorts RS1600, 1800 BDA's and 2000's in South Africa and sure we ran uprated springs but consider the punishments those took versus a road going car and again never broke one. Struts yes, lower arms yes, tie rod ends yes but springs never.

As a rule I always buy Japanese and only broke this rule because my wife fancied the 6 seats in the Multipla......bad move.

 

[JTDman]

You cannot compare jap cars to italians ones you just dont get the same engineering, stick to boring riceburners if you dont want to do a bit every now and then.

 

[T14086]

replaced a spring on a honda accord few weeks back

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Honda makes a Multipla rip-of, don't remember what they call it, but it's the same concept, a 6-seater as well.
That's what the Japs did in the past, and will do in the future, copy European concepts....
They sell them Jap cars relative cheap overhere, but parts are unbelievable expensive, compare to European/ American cars....that's where they make their profit...!!

 

[ivantate]

Its worth pushing Fiat on how they think the recall was done and then threaten with getting VOSA involved. After all even if replaced and it has broken in 2 years on a known fault which is safety related you should be able to push them quite hard for a full replacement.

For some reason I have heard of alot of Pug 406 springs going recently.

 

[TinyUK]

MkIII Mondeo's like a spring or two aswell.

Ive done my mondeo and multipla in recent months, the multi' has only done 53k and has been done on the recall too.

 

[glowplug]

They sell them Jap cars relative cheap overhere, but parts are unbelievable expensive, compare to European/ American cars....that's where they make their profit...!!

It is true spares for Jap cars are expensive but the point is you seldom need them.

Up till recently I ran a Nissan Micra 99 model and a Nissan Primera 97 model. The Micra, a little 1.3, had 140,000 miles when I sold it. I owned it since 39K and in 7 years never did a single thing to it other than servicing, didn't even need to change the clutch. The Primera I bought on the same day as the Micra from the same dealer. It had 42K on the clock at time of purchase and when it got written off last year, courtesy of a new driver, it had done 131K and the only problem I ever had with that was a sticky brake caliper.

I currently own a 1993 Toyota Previa with 132K and I have had to do the head gasket on that but the entire top end kit only cost me £36 + £20 for new head bolts. My 1999 Chrysler Voyager is on 92K and it is still going strong. ALL these cars had/still have their original springs.

In addition to springs I have had to change the MAF on my Multipla and as stated it has only done 62K. All the above cars have/had their original units???????

Point is Japanese companies do NOT panda to cost/corner cutting to increase revenues for shareholders. This is why they are consistently at the top of any and all reliability scales whilst European cars are typically middle to bottom.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

I've been told they also force their workers to work 80-100 hours a week, it's like modern slavery in those jap factorys....

And with development left to European car factorys, it's easy for the japs to build reliable cars, isn't it...???

 

[T14086]

It is true spares for Jap cars are expensive but the point is you seldom need them.

I have owned 15 odd jap cars and overall yes they are good (rusted like s*it when I owned them in the 80's/90's) one of the best was a honda accord which was brilliant...let me down once in 3 years but when it did (alternator £300!) it was more than the sum of parts my punto has cost me in 6 years.

I ordered a piece of plastic for a door trim recently for a customer (back piece behind inner door handle) on a modern honda...£46! I couldn't help but laugh.

 

[JTDman]

So ye gets what ye pays for, price up an all singing and dancing multi then a honda crv or hrv.

 

[glowplug]

Indeed and then over 5 years see how often the Multi breaks in comparison to the CRV or HRV and then take stock of how much it really costs.

Trying to defend the indefensible is a joke. Irrespective of individual experiences the real test lies in reliability index tables. These figures are based on statistical information gathered from a whole raft of reliable sources and represent the truest figure upon which to base an assertion on a vehicle manufacturers quality control.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=3128339010848601&searchtype=relindex#

Whilst Fiat is slightly above the average of 112 at 101.83 it is nowhere near Toyota 65.22, Mazda 37.51, Nissan 67.04, Honda 34.00, Suzuki 33.52. Even Kia and Ford rank higher.

So yes Japanese parts may cost more BUT if I can drive over 100,000 miles before I have to start spending money then the car has paid for itself and this is common with Jap cars. When I am spending money at 60K and below then something is seriously wrong and this is common with European cars.

So yes someone else said that all the innovation comes from Europe, fine but it would seem it takes a Jap to make it work right.

 

[JTDman]

You have to look past the problems on cars like these,we all know they have common problems but as you will see if you stick around a lot of people here have spent more than the cars initial purchase just to keep it going.
If you want something that will never go wrong then its the wrong car for you, i personally have never broken down but have had to do wishbones clutch cambelt gearbox roll bar and links just as maintainance.

 

[T14086]

Mr Glowplug, as everyone else is here, you are entitled to your opinion.

However saying 'My advice is think twice before buying Italian cars' is abit narrow minded to say the least, or does this also include alfa,ferrari, lamborghini etc?

You brought a multipla and have had some problems with it, ok we all realsie that (and try to help) but dismissing the whole Italian motor industry is abit of a pointless and rash statement.

That aside I,or someone else here, could easily retaliate with the fact that financially Fiat are in a excellent position which cant be said for honda (or most other makes to be honest) and have some exciting new technology about to come out or the initial purchase price of a honda to a Fiat is also much different. I visit a honda garage alot & know many of the techs and reliability speaking all isn't that rosey in the honda camp. But what would that prove.....nothing but silly 'tit for tat'! This is after all a 'Fiat' orientated forum so dont expect much sympathy for your outburst just as much as a Fiat owner wouldn't get on a honda forum. Were not here to say how good/bad our cars are or anyone elses for that matter but simply to talk about our Fiats.

No one here (ok....maybe a few) would ever doubt the reliabilty of a honda but theres more to a car than how reliable it is, theres the thrill of driving, the economical aspect (fuel/tax/insurance/cheap parts), the styling, the practicallity or even just the image no matter what the reason is the fact is many people prefer to drive a Fiat rather than a honda. Owning a Fiat is owning a part of a history (110years) and there is a sense of community as is clearly displayed on this forum right down to the fact that so many people here are willing to help others with projects, servicing, repairing infact anything to do with their Fiat(s).
That feeling of being a part of the Fiat brand is something I feel is missing from Honda owners, is it? please anyone feel free to prove me wrong.

I'm sorry that your experience isn't turning out the way you hope it would (if theres anything we can help with we will) but maybe you as a person are better suited to a honda and thats all that can be said on the matter?

 

[Zundapp]

What you do have to remember is that on any one-make or one-model forum, you'll hear the horror stories more often than anything else. People use the forums to gain the knowledge to help them fix their car, and do it as cheaply as they can.

There's not much point in someone telling the rest of the forum contributors that their car has run and run and nowt has gone wrong. Not much learning there!

My Multis haven't had all the faults on this forum, but they've had some of them, and I'm grateful to other members taking the time to contribute with info that has helped me when I needed it.

If I paid Jap car prices for my FIATs I'd expect a better standard of finish and quality. But I don't pay Japanese prices, and in general I get what I pay for and that's what I expect.

 

[T14086]

There's not much point in someone telling the rest of the forum contributors that their car has run and run and nowt has gone wrong. Not much learning there!

My Multis haven't had all the faults on this forum, but they've had some of them, and I'm grateful to other members taking the time to contribute with info that has helped me when I needed it.

If I paid Jap car prices for my FIATs I'd expect a better standard of finish and quality. But I don't pay Japanese prices, and in general I get what I pay for and that's what I expect.

Thank you Zundapp, you managed to say in a few paragraphs what I struggled to say in half a page!

 

[glowplug]

Look, I appreciate that all cars have their weakness's, that is a given. Of course I am irate as I still do not believe springs should break after such a short duration. My wife loves driving the car and even I must admit it does drive very nicely.

The reason I am so annoyed by this failure is simply down to its potential for fatality. Had this spring broken at speed there is every chance that it may well have caused a serious accident. What's more I do not believe FIAT's response to the problem was commensurate with the seriousness. Yes they were prepared to change them but only if I got the car to them. Fact is this is a known problem. They claim the springs were changed in 2006 and now 30K later they have broken again. Had they offered to collect and return then I would not be aggrieved. However all I got was the typical corporate table dancing and slopey shoulders.

The forum is excellent of that there is no doubt and I appreciate all the knowledge I have gained from it. With regard to my statement about Italian cars, well again I point to the reliability index's on that as the benchmark for someone to ascertain whether or not my statement is brash or backed up by statistics.

Let me just end by saying in spite of the issues I have no intention of parting with the car. Ergonomically it is by far the best 6 seater out there and that is even comparing it with the Toyota Picnic. I think I will just need to investigate all the known weakness's and address them before they strike.

 

[T14086]

With regard to my statement about Italian cars, well again I point to the reliability index's on that as the benchmark for someone to ascertain whether or not my statement is brash or backed up by statistics.

The problem with any reliablity index is to what degree does a car become unreliable. Reliability index 'polls' take into account such things as door not opening, annoying yes but in no way a measure of the cars 'ability' to let you down/leave you stranded!

This is a argument we have had many times on the forum, one of the forum members is actually a part of these reliability polls and if you strip them right down to (what I believe) a actual breakdown Fiats are actually very good.

As someone who has a good background with cars you should know the best people to ask are the ones in the trade who actually repair the cars, I see very few Fiats actually come into a Fiat dealership on a breakdown truck, infact as a example I have seen 2 grande punto come in, one the owner admitted to running the car with no oil the other the owner ran out of petrol.

I actually know for a fact honda are having trouble with springs/racks/suspension noises just like BMW are changing engines as are toyota. In the end it doesn't matter because most parts on modern cars are made 3rd party and fitted to many other makes of cars. Take away bosch/visteron parts on most modern cars and you are not left with much, does that make the Fiat, ford, vauxhall, honda etc unreliable or the 3rd party manufacture of the parts unreiable?

I will happily agree that there are some poor fitting trim issues on alot of Fiats etc but it is a mass produced budget car, Fiat put the majority of the money in the right place (I reckon so anyway) ....the engine. As far as springs are concerned yes I would agree that perhaps more are braking than on other makes (though ford,citroen, peugeot have always had problems) and it is a area they could well look into improving...maybe they are?