Technical Early Twinair DMF failure

Currently reading:
Technical Early Twinair DMF failure

The clutch and flywheel i used this time last year at approx 26k miles was a LUK Set up.
The original that came out was also stamped LUK. I wonder if the parts supplied now have been modified?
Going to be a pi&#er If it goes again in a few miles!
 
The clutch and flywheel i used this time last year at approx 26k miles was a LUK Set up.
The original that came out was also stamped LUK. I wonder if the parts supplied now have been modified?
Going to be a pi&#er If it goes again in a few miles!

Do you do mostly short trips / city traffic? How much was the total cost of replacement?

Yes, I believe my 500L had LuK, too, originally.
 
Do you do mostly short trips / city traffic? How much was the total cost of replacement?

Yes, I believe my 500L had LuK, too, originally.

Mainly used for A road journeys. She travels off peak, so not much stop start queueing.
The parts were £240 for the LUK flywheel and £98 for the clutch. Both inc vat, from Andrew Page.
Also found it easier to remove front bumper to access some bracket bolts.
 
I have a Fiat 500 Twinair, 105 bhp, 29,000 miles and its DMF also failed! I see this is common issue it seems.

What are Fiat doing to help us?

£3k plus to fix with new bell housing, drives, seals etc etc

One sure way I will never buy another Fiat.
 
I have a Fiat 500 Twinair, 105 bhp, 29,000 miles and its DMF also failed!

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Sorry to hear that you've experienced what is becoming an all too common fault.

How old is your car, by the way, and are you its first owner?

What are Fiat doing to help us?

So far as I can tell, basically nothing. Fiat regard the DMF as a wear and tear item. So even if this happened during the manufacturer's warranty period, they'd likely still expect you to foot the bill.

The problem is made worse by the very tight tolerances between the flywheel and bellhousing. If the fault is not caught in the early stages and promptly rectified, the collateral damage (bellhousing, seals, etc.) adds considerably to the bill.

Fiat gain a number of advantages from fitting a DMF. The car drives more smoothly, particularly at low rpm; this enables the economy test cycle to be completed in a higher gear, reducing the 'on paper' emissions figure, and they can get away with a weaker (and hence cheaper) gearbox than would otherwise be the case. Without a DMF, I doubt the existing gearbox would be able to cope with the torque of the 105TA engine.

Unfortunately it is the customer who pays the price.

Owners of 500's with a DMF could help themselves by minimising the time spent driving under load at low rpm, and replacing the DMF at the first sign of any harshness in the drive.

One sure way I will never buy another Fiat.

They make good value basic cars. My 1.2 Panda, bought new, is now over ten years old and has run almost 100k miles without needing any significant work at all - the suspension and powertrain are all original. But that's a 60HP car running on 13" 155 tyres. Not bad for a car with A/C and remote locking that cost well under seven grand new. Plus, 55mpg averaged over its lifetime so far.

The problems start once the cars get more sophisticated and more powerful. Add large diameter low profile alloys, and the suspension quickly wears out. Fit more powerful engines, and the transmission parts start wearing out early. Faults with uni/multiultiair units and turbos are commonly reported here. Fit lots of fancy gadgets (like climate control) and you'll discover they're not made sufficiently substantially to go the distance. And let's not even think about discussing anything with a dualogic transmission.

500's are great cars if you buy the basic model, drive it with mechanical consideration and respect its relative fragility. They're also a good choce if you buy new and trade away before the warranty runs out; they have some of the lowest depreciation figures in their class.

But owners of older high specification 500's could find themselves facing rather larger and more frequent maintenance bills than they might have expected. Their stories are plastered all over this section of the forum.
 
Last edited:
I suspect the 105's feature heavily in failures.. just too much additional power for compromise a long life in service

Plenty of 80k+ TAs around on the forum which havent needed any clutch work

But yes we see too many reports of worn DMFs taking out gearboxes..
Often at ridiculously low mileages

But the £3k bill does sound excessive

I seem to recall the Panda with @10k miles at failure was £2300 at a FIAT dealer

That is still enough to write off older cars :(
 
Last edited:
Hi, medium term lurker, first time poster, please be kind.

16 plate 500, 57000miles 105 TA with 4000rpm vibrations, very much thinking it’s a DMF issue.

Being stripped down for inspection.

Have phoned Fiat UK as service advisor suggested it maybe the way to go as he’d ‘seen a couple like this’

Will update. Certainly hoping it’s not £3k to fix!

Rgds
 
Hi, medium term lurker, first time poster, please be kind.

16 plate 500, 57000miles 105 TA with 4000rpm vibrations, very much thinking it’s a DMF issue.

Being stripped down for inspection.

Have phoned Fiat UK as service advisor suggested it maybe the way to go as he’d ‘seen a couple like this’

Will update. Certainly hoping it’s not £3k to fix!

Rgds

Heres hoping its a simple..and cheap fix :)

Does it make odd noises.. or just vibes at higher RPM?
 

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Have you owned the car from new? If so, this may help your case if you are seeking a contribution to the cost of the repair from Fiat CS.

If it's a recent purchase, you might do better to approach the selling dealer.

If you have this kind of work done by a Fiat franchised dealer, I doubt it will be cheap. Using an independent garage and choosing decent quality aftermarket parts could save you quite a bit of money.

An aftermarket DMF isn't ridiculously expensive in itself.
 

Attachments

  • Capture.PNG
    Capture.PNG
    158.1 KB · Views: 41
Last edited:
Hi

Makes loud vibration through the ‘transmission tunnel’ at 4000rpm.

Engine running pretty rough too.

Rgds
 
Thanks for reply JR.

One previous owner, full Fiat service history.

Am looking for independents here in Brighton (will scratch around on FF later)

Sold by Lookers VW 3 months and 10 days ago, guess the length of standard warranty.

Rgds
 
Last edited:
Sold by Lookers VW 3 months and 10 days ago, guess the length of standard warranty.

Even if it had happened a couple of weeks earlier, they'd likely have said a DMF is a wear & tear item not covered by the warranty.

From what you've posted, I doubt you'll get much, or indeed any, help from either Fiat CS or the selling dealer. Pragmatically, getting an independent to fit a new aftermarket DMF & clutch (and LUK are a good brand to choose for both) could be the cheapest and simplest way forward. You should then be good for at least another 50k miles.

Any contribution from Fiat would be dependent on having the work done by a franchised dealer, and the cost even after any contribution would likely be significantly greater.

The bill should be nowhere near £3k.

Am looking for independents here in Brighton (will scratch around on FF later)

It's about 60 miles away from Brighton, but small car services are one of the best independent Fiat specialists on the south coast.
 
Last edited:
Edited to say (excuse bloggy nature of this) although small car services seem fab, I don’t think I have time to get over there. It’s Currently booked in at the local fiat dealer who I’m not getting good vibes off. They had a quick look, suggested clutch/DMF but want £400 to drop the transmission to check.

Visited my two locals today, one seems a little more knowledgeable (the other didn’t seem to think the 105 TA had a DMF plus suggested *gearbox* straight away) The latter suggested clutch/DMF but will look at box/oil when it’s apart.

Thinking of ditching Fiat and going with the above local. As JRK says the possible fiat contribution isn’t really enough to encourage me to go there.

Have to say not impressed that at 57k on a four yr old car I’m having to do this. Not a good introduction to fiat motoring.

Rgds
 
Last edited:
Have to say not impressed that at 57k on a four yr old car I’m having to do this. Not a good introduction to fiat motoring.

In basic form, they're good value cars; I've owned a 10yr old 1.2 Panda from new that's done almost 100k and is still essentially completely original. It cost me under £7k new and over ten years I've spent less that £50 in non-service item repairs. It's also averaged over 55mpg overall; motoring doesn't get much cheaper that this.

The problems start when you move up the model range; parts wear much faster on a smaller engined car that's developing almost twice the power. You're never going to be able to run a car like a 105TA for basic city hatchback money.

Residuals held up well and personally I think used ones are way overpriced; the pcp payments when they were new were probably smaller than the combined depreciation and repair bills on a used one at current market prices.
 
Edited to say (excuse bloggy nature of this) although small car services seem fab, I don’t think I have time to get over there. It’s Currently booked in at the local fiat dealer who I’m not getting good vibes off.

Have to say not impressed that at 57k on a four yr old car I’m having to do this. Not a good introduction to fiat motoring.

Good vibes.. :eek:

Sad to say there are people out there who can wear through a clutch in 5k.. :(

So a wear and tear part failing in 10 times that distance isnt exceptional


Of the TAs Im acquainted with.. it has not been an item that gives trouble..

Sounds like your indy will give go the service you need at a no.nonsense price :)
 
Back
Top