Off Topic Ducato 9 seats vs. Vivaro/Trafic/Primastar

[eolonano]

Hi guys, I would ask a question...
I'm thinking to buy (not tomorrow) a second-hand 9 seats van;
I would drive it in a everyday use and on holiday.
I am unsure between Ducato and one of the Vauxall trio (Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar).
I really like the look of Vivaro, not so much the look of Ducato (the rear in particular).

But I also think this point can be irrelevant.

First of all, I am interested in:

-Workshop documentation (manuals, forum, etc.)
-Reliability
-Spare parts, availability and cost (I'm in Italy, so I think this point is for Ducato).

I'm interested in any opinions, especially the technical ones, or link or post to read.

Thanks.

 

[andydiver]

I have just been converting a minibus variant of the 2007 120hp Ducato and we are very happy with it. Drives very well and is very solid with 130,000 miles on the clock. Have had to seal the window sills to the engine and it had a new clutch fitted just before we got it a month ago. Lots of room even with the short wheel base and note that you can get a 6 foot 1 inch bed across the width of the van, much more space efficient than the traditional front to back if you are not very tall. Don't think other vans are that wide. Good luck.

 

[Dominion]

I have been researching the Vauxhall trio over the last couple of weeks. One thing that keeps cropping up is an issue with the injectors. Apparently the engine is a Renault unit and in their wisdom they decided to make the injectors out of steel. This causes them to rust amd seize, and when they need replacing (which happens alot apparently) they sheer off. To replace an injector is quite a major job and people have paid anything from £450 to £900 PER INJECTOR! This issue is compounded by the fact that all the injectors have to be removed in order to replace one (not sure why - just going on what I've been reading) which increases the chances of further sheered injectors. One guy reckoned that it cost him about £6000 for repairs resulting from one faulty injector! I thought this was most likely nonsense so I dug around and there are plenty of similar stories, although not as extreme.
Also, gearbox issues seem to crop up a fair bit.
However, it is wise to be mindful of the fact that people only tend to post negatives about their motoring experiences rather than positives, so the argument may be biased. I must admit though, the complaints about the injectors were enough to dissuade me.

 

[AndyRKett]

My brother is a vw transporter specialist, and although they like all vans, have their faults they tend to be infrequent and will do 200,000+ miles without major issues, when the others especially the ducato have given up with gearbox faults

They do tend to be more expensive because of this and they are more versatile with many companies catering for a multitude of conversion options and equipment, they also are very good tow vehicles

 

[ecunotemu]

and in their wisdom they decided to make the injectors out of steel. This causes them to rust amd seize, and when they need replacing (which happens alot apparently) they sheer off.

All diesel injectors are made from steel, what else is going to take a pounding from 30000psi for thousands of hours other than some outlandishly expensive alloy only nasa can afford.

Being steel doesn't make them rust, water does, its not a problem on millions of other vehicles so you need to look elsewheere for your scapegoat, simply spraying regularly with water displacement like wd40 or coating in wax is probably enough to prrevent problems.

To replace an injector is quite a major job and people have paid anything from £450 to £900 PER INJECTOR!

£450 is about the price of a new injector, its a precision engineered, clean room manufactured device with tolerances of less than 2 microns designed to operate for thousands of hours under astronomical pressures in a harsh environment.

If you want cheap injectors don't buy any common rail vehicle.

 

[The Beard]

The Vivaro/Traffic/Primastar does have a Renault engine, although I can't vouch for the quality of the injectors. If you buy any of these, you will at least have the satisfaction of at least buying British, even if the mechanicals aren't. You also have the luxury of shopping around for parts as some brands' dealers may charge more than others for certain items.

I'm pretty certain there is a brand new version of this van on the way which is a bit more than a facelift so that might bring the used prices down at launch time. Thinking about it, being in Italy you would be looking at Opel instead of Vauxhall.

Conversely, the FIAT/ Peugeot/Citroen triumvirate may also give you some flexibility in terms of spares, although not mechanical. We have some fairly distant relatives who have a furniture business in the Italian lakes and they have a large Turbo Daily with the 2.3 diesel that has covered well over 300,000 kms without serious issue, but I haven't spoken to them for a while in fairness.

More locally, a funeral director I know uses a Ducato SWB but that also has the 2.3 IVECO unit and that also has done well over 200,000 miles. It's probably as much a case as who's owned/driven it prior to you as to how well it lasts as the vehicle itself.

Personally, I'd probably go for the Ducato because, even allowing for any in-built prejudice, I think that the SWB or MWB is the better overall package being only shorter than the bigger versions and the same width, whereas the Vivaro is as big as it gets.

I take it you've seen this publication/website.....

http://www.camionsupermarket.it/ricerca-libera.html

The mileage on some of these is a bit on the high side, but I guess it depends on your budget.

Buona ventura, in a manner of speaking.

 

[andydiver]

The way I see it you have to enjoy what you have got, and take it on the chin if something happens. There is plenty of help here if you even suspect something and often it is a lot less difficult than the worst cases you see. The final point is a camper is generally a retirement for a van which is built to be on the road all day with a driver in a hurry. If my van at 130,000 miles on the clock has a fault every 10,000 from now on I will be quite happy, I commute to work with it at least a day a week and most faults give fair warning. Just relax and enjoy whatever you choose, often it depends on what is there on the day. . . .

 

[The Beard]

The way I see it you have to enjoy what you have got, and take it on the chin if something happens. There is plenty of help here if you even suspect something and often it is a lot less difficult than the worst cases you see. The final point is a camper is generally a retirement for a van which is built to be on the road all day with a driver in a hurry. If my van at 130,000 miles on the clock has a fault every 10,000 from now on I will be quite happy, I commute to work with it at least a day a week and most faults give fair warning. Just relax and enjoy whatever you choose, often it depends on what is there on the day. . . .

That's a good point about a van's retirement as you can afford to look at different parts that need working on in between using it, especially if it will be used for a week, then sit at home for a month before going off again for a few days. As opposed to a car used for commuting there will be time to refurbish it bit at a time.

Another thing that occurred to me is that if eolonano is in the north of Italy then he also has the option of looking for a van in the west of France, Switzerland or southern Austria.

 

[The Beard]

I Lots of room even with the short wheel base and note that you can get a 6 foot 1 inch bed across the width

That was the point I was trying to make when I said that they are wider than your average panel van if you order it in the SWB version.

 

[andydiver]

That's a good point about a van's retirement as you can afford to look at different parts that need working on in between using it, especially if it will be used for a week, then sit at home for a month before going off again for a few days. As opposed to a car used for commuting there will be time to refurbish it bit at a time.

At 5000 miles a year it takes some time before wear related issues, priority moves to weather proofing and keeping parts free of rust and seizing up, bit like my knees

 

[The Beard]

I bought some of those knee pads that floor tilers use. Not for working on vehicles you understand, but they do come in very useful when grovelling before Mrs. Beard!