Technical Ducato 2.3 Euro 5 - complete loss of power

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Technical Ducato 2.3 Euro 5 - complete loss of power

xj25vm

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For that last 2 months (only about 10 trips or so) I've had this issue where my 2016 Euro 5 Ducato has almost no power when I start it up. I can barely pull away. I could just about rev up the engine with the clutch down, but when getting past the 2000rpm mark, the engine starts to sound erratic up and down. The strange things is that, after struggling to drive for about 3-4 minutes barely moving with the foot to the floor, power would return almost instantaneously and the whole van would surge forward. For the rest of the journey everything would continue fine, with full power available.

Last weekend I did a 200 miles trip, and on the way back, for the last 30 miles I kept on loosing more and more power, until in the end I could barely make it home. My street is on a moderate incline, and I could barely climb it in first gear with the foot to the floor. I've checked for error codes with a cheap OBD reader and there are none stored. I don't know if an expensive / more capable one would find more. There is no check engine light on the dashboard lit up.

I looked around and accumulated a list of possible suspects:

1. EGR valve stuck open, which causes the engine to lack power when cold / on start-up. However, this wouldn't explain why I lost all power on the way back home, with a warm engine.

2. Maybe some issue with the turbo actuator - but would that fit the initial symptoms, where I had no power only for the first 3-4 minutes, and then all normal power would be restored?

3. I see people reporting issues with the accelerator pedal actuator, or the safety feature BTO (brake-throttle override). But it doesn't seem to fit my case, as the engine will rev up with the clutch down. But maybe it is worth looking into.

4. I also considered issues with fuel feed - either the tank pump (does the Euro 5 engine have a tank pump?), or the fuel filter or maybe the high pressure pump. But again, I'm not sure that fits with the initial symptoms of all power being restored after 3-4 minutes of driving.

Right now the van is pretty much undriveable. The engine sounds healthy when it starts, but if I put my foot down on the accelerator, when out of gear, there is a delay of 3-4 seconds until the revs slowly start climbing, and are reluctant to get past 2000rpm. Also one thing of note is that since all of this started, when I switch off the engine, it stops with a thump - if that makes sense - which didn't use to be the case.

I would appreciate any suggestions - otherwise I guess I will have to check and dismantle all of the above parts to try and narrow things down. Many thanks.
 
Hi,

It sounds a lot like the throttle body (TPS) is not operating properly.
Especially what you describe when shutting down the engine, where it comes off with a thumb.
Apart from functioning as a failsafe to prevent engine runaway the throttle body flaps also help the engine turn off more smoothly.
I could well imagine you getting the symptoms you have if the TPS was stuck partially open of was slow to react/got stuck at certain points and basically choking the engine.

Very well could be the EGR also as you mentioned, but to my head that shouldn't give you that thumby shutdown.
But you'll want to check the PIDs relating to EGR & TPS percentages as well as turbo pressure.

The EGR % should change in relation to how much throttle you give/load put on the engine.
TPS percentages should, if nothing else, change when the engine is on vs. off; cannot say if they should change under various loads.
Turbo pressure (MAP sensor) should steadily rise with throttle/load; if it does not if could (unfortunable point to either the dump-off valve or again the TPS).

Also it migth be worth checking the MAF value as well, usually expressed in g/s; Much like turbo pressure it should steadily rise with RPM meaning that the engine is ingesting more air as it should.

If it was a fuelling issue you most likely experience intermittent engine cutouts/sputtering, especially under load.
 
Thank you both for replying and for the useful info - and sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I managed to buy and install the Multiecuscan software and ran a scan this evening. It is starting to look like my initial suspicions might be the actual cause of the problem. I get the following two codes:

P0487-74 - EGR valve position - actuator slipping
P0404-78 - EGR valve (excessive offset) - alignment or adjustment incorrect

Incidentally, I've had a slow coolant leak around the EGR valve actuator / servo for the past 4 years. I have been wondering if the dried coolant crystals didn't accumulate somewhere inside the actuator and cause the problem. I guess the ECU must be limiting the throttle control artificially as it is not happy with the EGR situation. At least it seems the most likely suspect at this point in time.

There are also two other codes:
P0645-13 - Conditioner relay control - open circuit
P0530-14 - Air conditioner pressure sensor - short to ground or open circuit

But as this van doesn't have and never had air conditioning, I assume they are both non-sense and can be ignored.

Thank you again both for the hints and steering me in the direction of Multiecuscan. I'll probably find the time to dismantle the EGR in the next few weeks, clean things up, re-do the coolant seal and maybe that will fix the issue.
 
Good to hear you were on the right track, hope it solves the issue👍
Hard to say why it throws codes related to hardware not even installed. But like you said it can probably be ignored if it doesn't impact ventilation controls.
 
There are also two other codes:
P0645-13 - Conditioner relay control - open circuit
P0530-14 - Air conditioner pressure sensor - short to ground or open circuit

But as this van doesn't have and never had air conditioning, I assume they are both non-sense and can be ignored.

I assume when you scan with MES to check the existing modules it shows the AC as available? If so, it seems the van needs proxy alignment done, it will allow to delete the AC module. And such errors shouldn't appear anymore.

When I've activated the fog lights to check if they are working before installing everything the symptom was the same - MES reported instantly an error with the open circuit and a relay problem.

Before you do the proxy alignment procedure, make a backup of the actual proxy settings just in case... There's a 'how to' procedure:

 
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