Technical Driveshaft woes!

[jackwhoo]

Hi, I think you will be ok if garage listened to your gentle polite persuasion and will trial fit.
Both types of drive shafts have same part number ..... strongly implies they are interchangeable.

The tripod type are inferior - just my opinion (-:

Best
J

 

[HughJarsse]

Hi, I think you will be ok if garage listened to your gentle polite persuasion and will trial fit.
Both types of drive shafts have same part number ..... strongly implies they are interchangeable.

The tripod type are inferior - just my opinion (-:

Best
J

Been an aircraft engineer for most of my working life Jack, so know a bit about engineering, which is why I 'suggested' they 'tried it' as fairly certain that it will fit too, but.... don't think 'professionals' like being given 'advice' sadly!!

I did split both the old one, and the second hand one's joint to look inside, both do the same job, just slightly differently. All I want is my multi back on the road, not worried if the driveshafts 'look different' on each side!!

TBH, used to do all this myself years ago, but now at 72, and no longer having a garage, only a driveway, some jobs are a bit too much for the old bones these days....

 

[The Panda Nut]

Surely with the right bolts you are in business. They should have looked more closely. Good as it should be sorted but I feel for the stress you have been through. Its not the first time I have seen things that have been updated and looking so different but which do actually fit

I know exactly how you feel about tackling these things are the miles on your clock increase.

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,
I have just started flywheel and clutch change on my multi.... why do I do these things to myself?
Anyway re drive shafts: rather amusingly I have one of each type of inner joint
One tripod inner and one "proper" cv inner.
I hope this is of some help.

Best wishes
Jack

 

[HughJarsse]

Hi,
I have just started flywheel and clutch change on my multi.... why do I do these things to myself?
Anyway re drive shafts: rather amusingly I have one of each type of inner joint
One tripod inner and one "proper" cv inner.
I hope this is of some help.

Best wishes
Jack

Hopefully, Jack, I will have one of each too, 'IF' I can persuade the garage to fit the 'Bl**dy' thing!
It also proves that they are compatible as well!!
To be honest, it would have been a lot less hassle to have done my clutch/dmf myself, I think, despite not having a garage or lift, etc... and despite my age.

 

[jackwhoo]

The "proper" inner cv joint should have three semi circular plates each with two holes , the plates act as washers to stop the six retaining bolts damaging the thin metal flange for the boot.

The tripod inner cv joint does not need the above mentioned plates due to the different boot arrangement

 

[HughJarsse]

The "proper" inner cv joint should have three semi circular plates each with two holes , the plates act as washers to stop the six retaining bolts damaging the thin metal flange for the boot.

The tripod inner cv joint does not need the above mentioned plates due to the different boot arrangement

The "proper" inner cv joint should have three semi circular plates each with two holes , the plates act as washers to stop the six retaining bolts damaging the thin metal flange for the boot.

OK, so these seem to be missing from the one sent by dismantler!! according to EPER, these are part number 4315446.
OK so looks like I need to either acquire or make these before the garage can fit the driveshaft....More woes!!
Any chance that ordinary washers will do the trick, or do they need to be shaped. (obviously the larger the surface area, the better load spreading, so can see why they used crescent shapes)
currently trying to source bolts, as garage complaining the bolts for original are too short for the replacement!! (they don't know what size they are meant to be!! , so much for 'skilled technicians!!)
Bit of 3mm bar, cut and drilled should do, methinks. Cardboard template making tomorrow then !!

 

[jackwhoo]

Yes the bolts for the "proper " inner cv joint are significantly longer than the the bolts for tripode type joint .
The bolts are m8 thread Allen hex head, possibly 10.9 strength.
The correct length leaves the same protrusion of threaded portion past the joint as the bolts in the tripod joint.
Normal washers won't fit.
I apologise for not reading this sooner before refitting my drive shafts when I could have measured bolt length.

 

[jackwhoo]

My opinion is 3mm plate thickness will be fine (-:

 

[HughJarsse]

Garage say they need the longer bolts for the shaft before they can fit it.
Suggested they put the original bolt in the original driveshaft fitting, and then measure the thread length that protrudes from the flange. Then, if they measure the flange width on new shaft, and add the thread length to that, they will have the correct length bolts to get.
This has left the garage totally confused, and they are not sure what I am talking about..
So, these 'qualified & highly skilled vehicle technicians' with their certificates adorning the shop walls, can't seem to grasp the 'simple' solution..
As mentioned, I have done 50 years as an aircraft engineer, and have several 'City & Guilds' certificates, and an ONC in mechanical engineering, gained over a 5 year apprenticeship, and I have to actually go up to the garage, armed with a steel rule and explain step by step to the 'qualified mechanic' how to do this.
Put the existing bolt, into the existing shaft hub. Measure the amount of thread protruding from the hub (that would bolt into gearbox) This measurement is 20mm.
Now, measure the thickness of the same flange on the replacement shaft. This measurement is 30mm
Add to that dimension, the previously measured thread length protruding from the original. This gives us 20mm plus 30mm
This gives you the total length of bolt required. Total measurement is now 50mm
Simple really, yet seems beyond the capability of 'professionals' to 'deviate from the workshop manual’. And use a bit of logic, or ‘ingenuity’. And they are charging me £70 + VAT an hour!!
Now ordered 50mm cap head bolts, 12/9 part threaded. Pack of 10, £6. Being delivered Thursday.
Also, been busy doing the reinforcement plates as well. Made a cardboard template, and created these from it in 3mm steel plate. (pics below. Looks OK when fitted loosely) Hoping this will mean garage can get on and do the job!! ( some hopes!!)

 

[Terry899]

Garage say they need the longer bolts for the shaft before they can fit it.
Suggested they put the original bolt in the original driveshaft fitting, and then measure the thread length that protrudes from the flange. Then, if they measure the flange width on new shaft, and add the thread length to that, they will have the correct length bolts to get.
This has left the garage totally confused, and they are not sure what I am talking about..
So, these 'qualified & highly skilled vehicle technicians' with their certificates adorning the shop walls, can't seem to grasp the 'simple' solution..
As mentioned, I have done 50 years as an aircraft engineer, and have several 'City & Guilds' certificates, and an ONC in mechanical engineering, gained over a 5 year apprenticeship, and I have to actually go up to the garage, armed with a steel rule and explain step by step to the 'qualified mechanic' how to do this.
Put the existing bolt, into the existing shaft hub. Measure the amount of thread protruding from the hub (that would bolt into gearbox) This measurement is 20mm.
Now, measure the thickness of the same flange on the replacement shaft. This measurement is 30mm
Add to that dimension, the previously measured thread length protruding from the original. This gives us 20mm plus 30mm
This gives you the total length of bolt required. Total measurement is now 50mm
Simple really, yet seems beyond the capability of 'professionals' to 'deviate from the workshop manual’. And use a bit of logic, or ‘ingenuity’. And they are charging me £70 + VAT an hour!!
Now ordered 50mm cap head bolts, 12/9 part threaded. Pack of 10, £6. Being delivered Thursday.
Also, been busy doing the reinforcement plates as well. Made a cardboard template, and created these from it in 3mm steel plate. (pics below. Looks OK when fitted loosely) Hoping this will mean garage can get on and do the job!! ( some hopes!!)

Wow what a story. I feel for you as I had something the same happen Me. I did clutch change on my cinquecento and put it all back together only for it to leak like a sieve turns out the gearbox flange is damaged and guess what... you can't buy them nowadays. Eventually I found a second hand driveshaft with flange in Lithuania and a week later it's still on it's way. I'm struggling on the driveway as you are and not getting any younger modern garages are simple parts changers, paid from the neck down sadly.
Look forward to us both being back on the road shortly

 

[jackwhoo]

Shop4 parts
Currently selling the correct for multipla 1.9 jtd zc75 tutella/ petronas gear oil at reduced price.
Yesterday I used shop4 parts for the first time for
2 litres of zc75 .... even including delivery it was great value and Arrived next day.
Highly recommend shop4parts

 

[Terry899]

Shop4 parts
Currently selling the correct for multipla 1.9 jtd zc75 tutella/ petronas gear oil at reduced price.
Yesterday I used shop4 parts for the first time for
2 litres of zc75 .... even including delivery it was great value and Arrived next day.
Highly recommend shop4parts

Probably cost a fortune here, can't buy anything from the UK cos of brexit everything subject to extra taxes for us euro zone lads....

 

[HughJarsse]

So, Finally, my Multi is back on the road.. 2 weeks after they discovered the new driveshaft was too short.
They were somewhat reluctant to fit the different one I sourced from a dismantler, but finally did it.
So, Yes, it DID fit, easily too, apparently so now back on the road, but... MOT runs out on Thursday 5th, so have had to book the next available slot, Monday 9th at 3pm.
Took multi for a good run to settle everything down, and it appears all is good. No noised from the 'replaced' driveshaft, and clutch nice and smooth. (Just hope the MOT is as smooth!!) Only had 2 advises last year, cracked front number plate & oil leak (perennial fiat problem!!) so hoping for more of the same Thursday...

sheesh, what a palaver.....

 

[Terry899]

Good news for you
I'm also back on the road in my cinquecento. The Lithuanian driveshaft arrived from Spain to Ireland. I attempted to remove the cv joint on the other end, put it in a vice and whacked it with the hammer.... ping off it went leaving a bit of itself on the shaft. Obviously wrong technique used there
So with that I took the flange off it, cleaned it up and fitted it to my original driveshaft, to stop any leaks, I put a bit of high temp sealer around it and when installed, filled her with more gearbox oil at €22 a litre .
Both clutch and driveshaft working as new, touch wood.... or rust if you look hard enough on a Fiat
Wonder how many are still reading this.

 

[varesecrazy]

Wonder how many are still reading this.

Not me..

 

[MultipleMultis]

I am not reading either good luck with the MOT

 

[Tubthumper73]

I wasn't here either!

 

[HughJarsse]

'Both clutch and driveshaft working as new, touch wood.... or rust if you look hard enough on a Fiat'

Maybe the new motto should be 'rust me, I'm a Fiat!!

To be honest, both our Fiats, (Multi, and a 2003 Punto) are surprisingly rust free, neither has had, or needs any welding (famous last words!!) Not sure why, possibly an oversight at the factory perhaps??

 

[Terry899]

The most rust free car I ever had was a Renault Scenic. It required alot of work getting it reliable but it drove like a magic carpet, I then bought a kia ceed but have 2 cinquecentos as a hobby.