Technical Dead Multipla or not !

[boatlon]

I thought I had posted my previous findings just coming back in but clearly not.
Starter is off and bench tested the gear is slighly sticky but some lube is helping and throwing the gear out.
But not convinced.

On inspection of the rear of the Alternator there appears that the wires from the coil have burnt out, that would coincide with smoke when newly charged battery was fitted.

So the small wire link was removed from the back of the Alt. as the large feed has been off for a while.
Went to reconnect the battery and turned the key and that fuse still blows .

Need a wiring diagram! Hopefully get one THIS Weekend.

I note your suggestions for testing voltage but bearing in mind the starter is off, that may not show up . I have a feeling the Alternator may have fried something more than itself perhaps the ecu .

 

[jackwhoo]

I thought I had posted my previous findings just coming back in but clearly not.
Starter is off and bench tested the gear is slighly sticky but some lube is helping and throwing the gear out.
But not convinced.

On inspection of the rear of the Alternator there appears that the wires from the coil have burnt out, that would coincide with smoke when newly charged battery was fitted.

So the small wire link was removed from the back of the Alt. as the large feed has been off for a while.
Went to reconnect the battery and turned the key and that fuse still blows .

Need a wiring diagram! Hopefully get one THIS Weekend.

I note your suggestions for testing voltage but bearing in mind the starter is off, that may not show up . I have a feeling the Alternator may have fried something more than itself perhaps the ecu .

Are you testing the starter with the battery you are using on multipla?
If you are try it with a different good battery and see if it perforns differently.
The starter gear should fly out with force and the starter motor should really jump when it starts spinning.



Smoke when you connected freshly charged battery? That's news to us trying to help .

Burning out alternator when connecting a battery usually indicates battery terminals accidentally reversed. alt acts as a dead short if battery connected reverse polarity.

There is no point in doing the tests suggested until you refit starter. The tests are only valid when leads under high load.

Forget about the blowing fuse until you can get engine to crank on starter.

Small link wire on back of alt? Do you mean the excite/d+ thin wire that connects the wiring harness to the alternator voltage regulator?

 

[boatlon]

Are you testing the starter with the battery you are using on multipla?
If you are try it with a different good battery and see if it perforns differently.
The starter gear should fly out with force and the starter motor should really jump when it starts spinning.



Smoke when you connected freshly charged battery? That's news to us trying to help .

Burning out alternator when connecting a battery usually indicates battery terminals accidentally reversed. alt acts as a dead short if battery connected reverse polarity.

There is no point in doing the tests suggested until you refit starter. The tests are only valid when leads under high load.

Forget about the blowing fuse until you can get engine to crank on starter.

Small link wire on back of alt? Do you mean the excite/d+ thin wire that connects the wiring harness to the alternator voltage regulator?

Used jump starter - different battery but same result.

Polarity correct when connected.

yes small wire and main feed

 

[jackwhoo]

Used jump starter - different battery but same result.

Polarity correct when connected.

yes small wire and main feed

Does it spin with great force when pinion gear jumps out?

 

[jackwhoo]

This may sound like a stupid thing to test but could you please test with your volt meter the voltage of the battery from multipla and that the positive terminal of battery is still positive . Yes it sounds stupid I know but there is a reason for me asking.

 

[boatlon]

Trying to upload photos on this site is not intuitive !

 

[varesecrazy]

Trying to upload photos on this site is not intuitive !

Not too bad..

Read the guides at top of Newbie section

 

[boatlon]

Trying to download our breakthrough (a pic of meter read)on this problem , to show exactly as asked here . The battery is showing minus 12.v , so unbelievable , never had this before , how the hell did that happen !

 

[jackwhoo]

Trying to download our breakthrough (a pic of meter read)on this problem , to show exactly as asked here . The battery is showing minus 12.v , so unbelievable , never had this before , how the hell did that happen !View attachment 210440

Thank you for doing the test , I was worried you thought I was pi$$$$$ing crazy and would refuse to do it.

It does happen very rarely.

Caused by .........
battery so flat when you put it on charge you put the carger leads on reverse polarity without blowing the carger fuse (or getting a fault warning from charger If it clever charger)
so you changed the polarity of the battery by incorrect charging , oopps.

You aren't the first to do this and won't be the last!

Can you post a pick of the charger you used? Did you have to wire in a second battery to trick your charger into charging at first?

 

[boatlon]

Sorry not getting your last paragraph, it was my friend that put the battery in charge but he says the charger went up to about 5 amps then slowly came down. Not saying either way but if the plates inside depleted that badly would the charger pick it up wrong , equally if the alternator diode gave up then this might have caused reverse polarity?
If I drained the life out and recharged it could I recharge given it’s correctly done .
I have used the charger twice since that Multipla one was used , and the battery on the car is one of them, so it still charges properly.
Just to let you know we must of spent 2 hrs putting the starter back on phew!

 

[jackwhoo]

Sorry not getting your last paragraph, it was my friend that put the battery in charge but he says the charger went up to about 5 amps then slowly came down. Not saying either way but if the plates inside depleted that badly would the charger pick it up wrong , equally if the alternator diode gave up then this might have caused reverse polarity?
If I drained the life out and recharged it could I recharge given it’s correctly done .
I have used the charger twice since that Multipla one was used , and the battery on the car is one of them, so it still charges properly.
Just to let you know we must of spent 2 hrs putting the starter back on phew!

No it was definately not the alternator that caused the reverse polarity of the battery.

100% incorrect charging Caused battery reverse polarity.

Don't worry about what I said in last paragraph.

I'm not saying anything wrong with your charger I was just interested in what type it is.

Yes you can TRY and totally flatten battery by connecting a load to it for a long time,
After you have flattened battery as much as possible you can TRY to recharge it correct polarity. In my opinion you will be wasting your time and even if you correct the polarity of the battery it will not be capable of delivering the current necessary to operate starter motor.


Yes starter motor on 1.9jtd is a pig of a job.

 

[jackwhoo]

Pugglt Auld Jock

Hi Jock, had you heard of of this but never seen it before ?

Cheers Jack

 

[boatlon]

“Yes starter motor on 1.9jtd is a pig of a job.“!

Thank you !

 

[boatlon]

Ok turning over and not starting now P 2151 code could be a fuel problem

 

[jackwhoo]

Ok turning over and not starting now P 2151 code could be a fuel problem

Frankly I am amazed that the ecu hasn't been totally fried and you are getting communication with the ecu.

That is very fortunate

 

[jackwhoo]

Any problems are going to be directly related to damaged electrical components caused by the reverse polarity battery.

The code you have found does not mean the same thing across all vehicle makes ,
You need to find what fist designated it to mean.

I suspect you may have to send your engine ecu away to be tested and repaired if you can find someone who can do it.

Maybe ask bba reman they appear to know what they are doing.

Does the fuse that was blowing still blow?

 

[boatlon]

, no the fuse is fine now.
Yes the engine did fire brieflybut now it just turns.

Back to the Battery , when it initially discharged , this must have been done by the alternator , I have had this before when the diode breaks down . Just saying that could have been the initial drain.

Anyway the alternator has to come off.

 

[varesecrazy]

Blimey.. more twists and turns to this than most films..

Good spot on the polarity Jack..I know youve been hinting at it

Weird how the GOOD BATTERY wouldnt spin the engine..

Obviously other issues

 

[boatlon]

Different Battery does spin.

 

[jackwhoo]

, no the fuse is fine now.
Yes the engine did fire brieflybut now it just turns.

Back to the Battery , when it initially discharged , this must have been done by the alternator , I have had this before when the diode breaks down . Just saying that could have been the initial drain.

Anyway the alternator has to come off.

View attachment 210464

The alternator may have had a small defect
or more likely
the battery was just drained by the constant low drain that is on all modern cars with computers,
I am seeing a lot of this recently after cv19 lockdown. Even new batteries on new cars thst have not been able to cope with 12weeks sitting idle.

Charlie has also seen this too.

The alternator definitely has a number of massive defects now !

By the way the alternator likely has 9 diodes in it. At least 3 of which will be blown apart.