That's one thing ruled out then, ask is the floor wet either side?
Technical Bad earth & poor starting
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Technical Bad earth & poor starting
That's one thing ruled out then, ask is the floor wet either side?
Yes, I did think about the blend door issue when replying originally, and decided it was a bit unlikely a 2009 1.2 Sport would have been specified with climate as an option; it certainly wasn't standard on that model.
The filling coolant procedure has to be followed exactly to ensure no air trapped in cooling system .
The tank on the side of the rad can look full and the rad etc can still be full of air.
Bubbles equal boiling which generally indicates seriously low water(it can also be lack of flow when full too) check thermostat as advised, rad, heater matrix, or any where that could leak.
Forget air lock check the water level using a makeshift dip stick and compare to the outside of the expansion tank for level.
If your brothers garage can, do a compression test?
Forget air lock check the water level using a makeshift dip stick and compare to the outside of the expansion tank for level.
If your brothers garage can, do a compression test?
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check the water level using a makeshift dip stick and compare to the outside of the expansion tank for level.
[/QUOTE]
If you shine a torch on the outside of the filler tube
And look on the opposite side.. you will see the fluid level clearly
Better than dropping a foreign body in there.. AND you can see the level Hot..or Cold.. no need to remove the cap
!!. Do beware of HOT surfaces..and the cooling fan Starting..!!
[/QUOTE]
If you shine a torch on the outside of the filler tube
And look on the opposite side.. you will see the fluid level clearly
Better than dropping a foreign body in there.. AND you can see the level Hot..or Cold.. no need to remove the cap
!!. Do beware of HOT surfaces..and the cooling fan Starting..!!
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If you shine a torch on the outside of the filler tube
And look on the opposite side.. you will see the fluid level clearly
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately ours is totally opaque No torch would work but for those that can yes better, I actually use a plastic tube and put my finger on the top to hold the liquid.
So serious shortage of coolant in the system, had to put in a full kettle 1.8 litres of water to fill back up.
Now started to strip down to see if there is anything obvious;
stripped out the battery, tray, ECU and a range of awkward brackets for the harness.
we got the inlet manifold off eventually - not the easiest of jobs and quite fiddly getting the bottom nuts / bolts out, and getting the harness unclipped from the underside, but no sign of heat damage or melting at all, so feel comfortable with that.
got a pretty bad oil leak from cam cover and the belt is desperately in need of replacing as pretty badly cracked, so it's going to get a timing belt kit.
So shopping list so far:
- Rocker cover gasket
- Thermostat
- Cam sensor
- Crank sensor
- Temp sensor (according the dash was up to full temp after idling for 4-5 mins) but clearly wasn't.
- Cambelt kit
- Oil & filter
- Coolant
- Air filter
- Earth strap (even though we have fitted a huge one opposite side of the engine - just rules it out for the sake of a couple of quid)
Trying to locate a timing locking kit is proving a bit of a challenge - can order a £20 one off ebay - but 2 weeks delivery from China, but don't fancy laying out £120 for a professional one for single use.
Whilst have tested the crank sensor - I'm just going to replace both crank & cam sensors for the sake of it just to completely rule them out.
The engine harness is bar a few connectors to starter motor and alternator is almost free, but not going to take out completely as plenty of room to inspect and test the cables now.
Think there is a small leak in the heater matrix , very slight damp on the carpet which as a strange fishy smell (assume this is coolant) - admittedly am thinking K-seal for that rather that stripping the dash to get at it.
looks like a busy weekend and couple of evenings next week...
Managed to borrow a sniffer kit to check for exhaust emissions in coolant to test if the head gasket is compromised - liquid stayed blue so seems reasonable, - also no obvious sign of oil in the water or froth in oil etc.
Now started to strip down to see if there is anything obvious;
stripped out the battery, tray, ECU and a range of awkward brackets for the harness.
we got the inlet manifold off eventually - not the easiest of jobs and quite fiddly getting the bottom nuts / bolts out, and getting the harness unclipped from the underside, but no sign of heat damage or melting at all, so feel comfortable with that.
got a pretty bad oil leak from cam cover and the belt is desperately in need of replacing as pretty badly cracked, so it's going to get a timing belt kit.
So shopping list so far:
- Rocker cover gasket
- Thermostat
- Cam sensor
- Crank sensor
- Temp sensor (according the dash was up to full temp after idling for 4-5 mins) but clearly wasn't.
- Cambelt kit
- Oil & filter
- Coolant
- Air filter
- Earth strap (even though we have fitted a huge one opposite side of the engine - just rules it out for the sake of a couple of quid)
Trying to locate a timing locking kit is proving a bit of a challenge - can order a £20 one off ebay - but 2 weeks delivery from China, but don't fancy laying out £120 for a professional one for single use.
Whilst have tested the crank sensor - I'm just going to replace both crank & cam sensors for the sake of it just to completely rule them out.
The engine harness is bar a few connectors to starter motor and alternator is almost free, but not going to take out completely as plenty of room to inspect and test the cables now.
Think there is a small leak in the heater matrix , very slight damp on the carpet which as a strange fishy smell (assume this is coolant) - admittedly am thinking K-seal for that rather that stripping the dash to get at it.
looks like a busy weekend and couple of evenings next week...
Managed to borrow a sniffer kit to check for exhaust emissions in coolant to test if the head gasket is compromised - liquid stayed blue so seems reasonable, - also no obvious sign of oil in the water or froth in oil etc.
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Hmm, if the cam belt is pretty badly cracked that might actually be the cause of the issue - if it's seriously stretched or has skipped a tooth that'd throw the crank vs cam sensor timing out.
Is the car a bit low on power too compared with normal?
Whatever, it sounds like you've found and will fix a bunch of issues which could well have finished the engine off, so the non-start sounds like a blessing in disguise, in some ways.
Only issue I'd be majorly concerned about is the leaky heater matrix - that's often a sign the cooling system's been over-pressurized, unless it's been run for a long time with no antifreeze and has simply rusted out. Though a damp patch and fishy smell might be unrelated, maybe your daughter's secretly taken up fishing
Is the car a bit low on power too compared with normal?
Whatever, it sounds like you've found and will fix a bunch of issues which could well have finished the engine off, so the non-start sounds like a blessing in disguise, in some ways.
Only issue I'd be majorly concerned about is the leaky heater matrix - that's often a sign the cooling system's been over-pressurized, unless it's been run for a long time with no antifreeze and has simply rusted out. Though a damp patch and fishy smell might be unrelated, maybe your daughter's secretly taken up fishing
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Belt tension seemed ok, just obvious signs of ageing. Power wise doesn't seem any different to normal.
I'll have a further look to see if there is anything obvious / blockage in the cooling system which may cause pressure, ran the car, when doing the sniffer test we ran upto temp, then undid the filler cap - slight pressure as you'd expect but nothing excessive or out of the ordinary.
There is a hose from rocker cover to airbox that has split along the length, and broke the clip that stabilises one the AC pipes on the LHS of the engine so will have to get in touch with the dealer for those.
I'll have a further look to see if there is anything obvious / blockage in the cooling system which may cause pressure, ran the car, when doing the sniffer test we ran upto temp, then undid the filler cap - slight pressure as you'd expect but nothing excessive or out of the ordinary.
There is a hose from rocker cover to airbox that has split along the length, and broke the clip that stabilises one the AC pipes on the LHS of the engine so will have to get in touch with the dealer for those.
So the problem continues...
Interestingly when viewing the live data graph on cranking it doesnt register the engine is cranking at all, then minor splutter and you see a spike - maybe 250-300 rpms then flat again then once started actual rpm tracks with target rpm and runs fine.
Disconnect the crank sensor - and the car starts perfectly. I know everyone tells me it cant / it shouldnt, but it does... yes the rev counter / tacho doesnt work and it puts the engine light on, but starts as it should.
so reconnect the crank and disconnect the cam sensor, took a while to start - but was then hunting all over the place as you would expect.
reconnect both sensors - back to taking upward of 10 seconds to start.
the only remaining thing that appears to be left is perhaps maybe the firmware / software has got corrupt in the ECU when the bad earth occured??
Any ideas? - are ECU failures / corruptions a thing - does this sound plausable?
inlet manifold off and inspected - all ok
Cambelt, water pump & tensioner replaced
Auxillary belt replaced
New crank sensor
New cam sensor
Thermostat replaced
rocker cover gasket and 4x little oil seals replaced
Full engine service (Oil, Filters, Plugs, Coolant)
Heater matrix replaced (was leaking quite badly)
fully inspected and tested pins from both crank and cam sensors whilst harness was practically out - all tested continuity ok, and no shorts to earth or other cables. - all ok
Interestingly when viewing the live data graph on cranking it doesnt register the engine is cranking at all, then minor splutter and you see a spike - maybe 250-300 rpms then flat again then once started actual rpm tracks with target rpm and runs fine.
Disconnect the crank sensor - and the car starts perfectly. I know everyone tells me it cant / it shouldnt, but it does... yes the rev counter / tacho doesnt work and it puts the engine light on, but starts as it should.
so reconnect the crank and disconnect the cam sensor, took a while to start - but was then hunting all over the place as you would expect.
reconnect both sensors - back to taking upward of 10 seconds to start.
the only remaining thing that appears to be left is perhaps maybe the firmware / software has got corrupt in the ECU when the bad earth occured??
Any ideas? - are ECU failures / corruptions a thing - does this sound plausable?
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Dumb solution, cut out relay with 5 second delay that chops the crank sensor, problem solved?
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I’d thought of something similar as a fall back position, but want to get to the bottom of the issue. Interestingly when I tried the process to relearn the phonic wheel - which we did a week ago, now won’t work as just says failed when we tried to clear learned value etc
Got the car all back together fully and the lower dash reassembled this evening, so decided to cut the fingers off a rubber glove and protect the crank sensor and plug and leave them disconnected temporarily given the car fires up as it should and she'll just have to put up with the engine light and no rev counter for a couple of days.
Took it for a test drive didn't rev quite as freely and no power at all going up hill (bit awkward going up a hill on a national speed limit bypass and only being able to do 35mph), so unplugging the sensor clearly puts the car in limp mode, but starts and idles fine. So had to revert to reconnecting the sensor (and thus reintroduce the bad start) but the car then drives perfectly with normal power once it has started.
everything we can think of now points to an ECU / Software problem, so probably have a couple of options:
a) Take it to the main dealer and ask if they can reflash the software, and hope the ECU is not faulty.
b) Get a replacement ECU from dealer
c) Get a used replacement ECU.
I'm leaning more towards option c, so wanted to ask what is involved?
I've read you need to undertake a 'proxy alignment' to make all the modules talk to each other again, the diagnostic tool I can borrow has the ability to do this. But wanted to ask about keys - I'd rather not have to replace all the locks, and just get the keys recoded to the ECU - has anyone any experience of this and done it successfully?
Or any other suggestions?
Many thanks - Ian
Took it for a test drive didn't rev quite as freely and no power at all going up hill (bit awkward going up a hill on a national speed limit bypass and only being able to do 35mph), so unplugging the sensor clearly puts the car in limp mode, but starts and idles fine. So had to revert to reconnecting the sensor (and thus reintroduce the bad start) but the car then drives perfectly with normal power once it has started.
everything we can think of now points to an ECU / Software problem, so probably have a couple of options:
a) Take it to the main dealer and ask if they can reflash the software, and hope the ECU is not faulty.
b) Get a replacement ECU from dealer
c) Get a used replacement ECU.
I'm leaning more towards option c, so wanted to ask what is involved?
I've read you need to undertake a 'proxy alignment' to make all the modules talk to each other again, the diagnostic tool I can borrow has the ability to do this. But wanted to ask about keys - I'd rather not have to replace all the locks, and just get the keys recoded to the ECU - has anyone any experience of this and done it successfully?
Or any other suggestions?
Many thanks - Ian
Think the key is stored on the BCM
What happens if you press the accelerator pedal whilst cranking ?
It's got to be a simple problem either no spark/or at the wrong time or no/wrong amount of, fuel, or at wrong time surely?
Have you tried "easy start" into the air intake?
What happens if you press the accelerator pedal whilst cranking ?
It's got to be a simple problem either no spark/or at the wrong time or no/wrong amount of, fuel, or at wrong time surely?
Have you tried "easy start" into the air intake?
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Not tried easy start John, the first garage said it was a timing issue between crank and cam sensors, all sensors have been replaced and timing kit fitted (used proper locking kit) so confident there is no mechanical timing issue (and the car drives fine when started) all sensors have been replaced and the harness tested in more ways than I can remember - everything checks out, so the only thing seems to be ecu, in limp mode (crank sensor disconnected) starts after 1-2 seconds, with crank plugged in is like there is a conflict (until it starts), will try the easy start to rule that out.
