Technical A/C Problem

[The Panda Nut]

Halfords

Yes my experience is the same. They are the ultimate in unprofessional. I haven't read the regs so I suspect they can carry out refills in the manner described without falling foul, but its going to have a much lower success rate than doing the job properly and, if there are any leaks its a waste of money. My local garage man is aircon trained and has the right equipment and waste licences. His charges are reasonable too. I cant repeat what he has to say about what Halfords approach is!

£40 is a fairn price to refill, but my experience of Fiats is the sysyems dont leak down, so loss of performance is likely to be a leak.

My local man used a leak stopper additive on my mothers car. He said he'd never tried it before but the alterntive was removing the entire dash to replace an O ring. It worked and we never had another problem, so on very minor leaks from seals its a possible cure. Fiat Panda Mk3s seem to suffer corrosion and disintegration of the condenser. May be there was a bad batch used at some point in production. Ours is a 2011 one. When changed is wa like a rotten string vest. It wasnt actually leaking but why, must be the 8th wonder of the world.

 

[koalar]

ultraviolet dye is the heaviest thing in an aircon system and therefore often the last thing to leak out, this can mean that unless the system is completely empty you may not see any dye outside of the system. Also depending on the design of the system and the pipework you may still never find the leak with uv dye because the design of the pipes or connections may let lighter gas out but not the heavy dye. Then it is especially hard to spot if the leak is in the fins of the condenser or worse the evaporator.s

Is this true the dye mixes with the oil

Used in 250 million vehicles

It finds leaks even that hold a vacuum

Such as here

 

[AndyRKett]

Our 500 is 2015 and still has the cheap gas in it.
Though signs of a small leak on ours at the bottom corner of the condenser, hard to say if the pipe connections have leaked over the condenser or the condensor has leaked over the pipes. It's still working a few months after refill.

Groupon do deals for ATS aircon, used to be £25, now up to £40.

My 2015 VW is the Cheaper R134a and my wife's 2017 Mini is R1234yf, which looking it up was twice the price for a refill. I have access now to an aircon recharging machine, but doesn't do R1234yf so if it ever needs doing, wife is going to have to pay the big bill.

 

[AndyRKett]

Is this true the dye mixes with the oil

Used in 250 million vehicles

It finds leaks even that hold a vacuum

Such as here

Think of it this way. If you fill a balloon with a mixture of air and water, then tie the end, the water all sits at the bottom and the air fills the top of the balloon.

If you poke a hole in the top of the balloon and the air leaks out, non of the water is going to leak out till the balloon is nearly empty.

If you churn it up and shake the balloon and poke a hole in it, kinda like if gas and dye was being mixed in a compressor. the gas still wants to sit at the top and the dye at the bottom so what dye leaks out, is really only a very thin vapor of the dye that mixed with the gas, you need a lot to leak out to put down a decent deposit of dye before you can see it easily.

Its easier with the ultra bright LED lights as it used to be done with tubes which as a hand held device were not very powerful.

That video made me laugh. I was cringing thought most of it.

Guy holds a vacuum for 15 minutes, if you're looking for a leak you really want to hold it for 30 - 60 minutes. The shorter duration you hold it for the less time it has to lose the vacuum. On air con you might only be looking for a small change on the dial to confirm a leak.

That guy is a bit of a cowboy, seriously how much dye did he get all over the engine bay ??? its going to be hard to find a leak anywhere else if you've already spread it about with your hands.


I am going to let you into a little secrete. That system already had a known massive leak and him putting the dye in was all for the camera.
at 3:16, you can see the dye all over the high side port. Which means he had sucked dye out of the system when he did the vacuum.
If there was only a very small leak then you would expect a very small amount of dye to be present after a short test drive, not the gallons of dye all over the compressor at the end, which was virtually dripping off. That would suggest a pretty major leak or a leak that's been there a long time.

Also the compressor is the sump for the aircon system. Any leak in the compressor body or seals is exactly where the dye accumulates, so in this case it was very obvious. Not so obvious with the pipework or further round the system, and really not obvious if you spread the dye about with your hands.



Dye is probably the most reliable way of finding leaks, but when you can't find the leak with dye, then you need someone who knows what they're doing and experience.

 

[vexorg]

Any aircon I've fixed has been the condenser in terms of leaks. Compressor failures are usually the clutch.

 

[Moonroof]

Pictures of the new cross bumpers suggest that there are a few more fixings round the headlamps under the bonnet to be removed and I suspect the Mk3 will be very similar. Its basically a top row of fixings various and a bottom row, along the edges and a few round the wheel arches. Lower the bumper onto a blanket or quilt on the ground and remove the wires from fog lamps. Bumper will have to be pulled straight forwards once the bolts and screws removed to slide out of the slots on the car. Best to have two people so it doesnt sag on one side and then get stuck which risks breaking things.

Pictures of the new cross bumpers suggest that there are a few more fixings round the headlamps under the bonnet to be removed and I suspect the Mk3 will be very similar. Its basically a top row of fixings various and a bottom row, along the edges and a few round the wheel arches. Lower the bumper onto a blanket or quilt on the ground and remove the wires from fog lamps. Bumper will have to be pulled straight forwards once the bolts and screws removed to slide out of the slots on the car. Best to have two people so it doesnt sag on one side and then get stuck which risks breaking things.

Many thanks for the info.

 

[AndyRKett]

Any aircon I've fixed has been the condenser in terms of leaks. Compressor failures are usually the clutch.

Higher mileage cars quite often go around the compressor shaft seals older compressor designs especially.

Some brands quite often have expansion valve problems.

Ford used to (not if they still do) have these weird push fit pipes that would lock into place just by pushing them, the seals in the push fit would dry and crack and then the gas would leak out of the joins.

Another common area is the o-rings between the compressor and the block that connects to the pipework.

The condenser is most common for obvious reasons, it sits in the line of all the road salt and other crap being flung at it the whole time the car is in use.

That said I once reclaimed a condenser from a scrap yard that was bent, and managed to straighten it out and found it was still uncompromised and not leaking. worked until I bent it again hitting a deer at 50mph a few years later.

 

[Moonroof]

Had the sniff test done today. The condenser’s the culprit, leaking like sieve
Checked the price with the dealer. £255 + Vat
My garage can supply one for £155 all in.
Probably get it fitted later in the week.