Technical 150 JTDM engine Map

[re668]

Has anybody got a standard Engine map for a 2006 150 JTDM.

I'm in the process of tracing the cause of my black smoke trail on full throttle- all the usual suspects have been eliminated so I'm clutching at straws that the map is the cause.

I want to check it on a standard map to see what difference this makes as I know mine has a non standard map on it

Cheers

Richard

 

[sussexa]

I can post A std map, later when i get home.
What map is on now? I have plenty of data for airflow boost fuel amounts from data logging etc.
Do you know your revs,max boost,maf airflow and IQ at moment its smoking?
Have you ruled out stuck open egr and boost leak, air filter.
Have you got fes to log values?
If you can pm me your map i can also compare to std and see if i can spot any obvious error.(if not ie if profesional no problem)
A 200hp map would be somewhere around 90-93mm3 IQ, and need around 1300-1400mg/i maf airflow, which with a fmic would need around 2600mbar-2700mbar to burn clean afr 17-18
Afr 15 or less i would guess is smoky.
Was it ok directly before mapping?

 

[sussexa]

actually have a copy of std map here.
http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10013
you will need to register to see it i think

actually though dont take this map as gospel as i think it was remapped before i had the car then returned to standard by them.

 

[sussexa]

looked back into your posts, did you sort out cutting out? is it related to that.
you dont mention swirl flaps.
http://www.ms-motor-service.com/ximages/pg_si_0093_en_web.pdf
have a read of this and check yours are operating correctly/at all. if the bar linkage breaks off the drive flap the others may be stuck open/shut and if the remaining flap attatched to actuator still turns no error message may be displayed.
starting the car the bar will move and turn all flaps approx 1/4 turn.if this is not functioning correctly you may have lost approx1/3 airflow into cylinders if stuck in shut position.
i have also seen you have fes ,you can check with fes there is an actuator test for swirl flaps i think.
also easier to check egr operation with fes, logging maf airflow at idle you will see airflow falling and rising again as it opens/closes i put a graph up in here of normal airflow
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/292485-egr-valve-problem.html
maf idle 485-500mg/i egr shut 300-400mg/i with egr open
map boost 970mb-1050mb depends on atmospheric pressure cross check both with just ign on should be pretty similer.
turbo boost solenoid idle=75% if mapped im assuming anywhere down to 20%(check operation manually by observing actuator at idle 75%=actuator pulled fully shut towards radiator lever is pulled to stop=max spool, turn ign off or get someone else to and watch actuator should go outwards away from radiator smoothly approx 10mm)

also with fes check your injector correction values
mine normall settle when warm at less than +/- 1.50 and sometimes less than that +/-0.50 cold start youll probably see +/- 4 or 5 and quickly come down
reving usually drops closer to zero.good indication of any injector issues.

any other things you suspect let me us know ive probably got data here somewhere.

background on map?,cant upload map on here youl have to go to link above its a good site for mapping/mapping issues..

 

[fruchty]

Hey sussexa I really love reading your posts since it seems you know quite a bit about 150 jtd engine. I was just searching the forum for some instructions how to check if injectors are bad and found this post which explains it very nicely. Is there any other checks that I can do?
My problems are a bit different from the author of this thread but I'm also experiencing barely visible smoke under full acceleration (visible at night in the rear view mirror when a car is driving right behind me) and I think that it somehow lost a bit of power; the car won't go over 210km/h flat out (130,5mph).
Reading this forum it seems it could be a lot of different things; can I check maf with fes? Are those values you wrote in your last post also for checking if maf is dying?

 

[sussexa]

No those are values of a good maf with operating egr,at 880revs idle im constant 505-510mg/i at std idle revs id expect around 485mg/i.
If you can log a bit of a blast full throttle in 4th 2000-4000 and log the following,
Revs,IQ (total fuel),maf airflow, boost ,desired boost, vnt %(boost control)
And another
Revs, IQ,rail pressure, desired rail pressure, and Msrop
We can derive health of a few things at once.
Also might as well log
Revs,maf temp, map (boost)temp and boost.
Map pressure compared to atmospheric pressure can be done parked up.
Other bits can only be derived from your mapping ie may just be its mapped for 15:1afr or the injector duration map is incorrect or start of injection late.
We need some data to work with for now,
Logs dont need to be long, but full throttle is needed really(be safe)
If you cant get full throttle just post up what you do get.
Smoke full throttle usually too much fuel or not enough air you need to know which you have.
The maf can be disconnected to test drive but will throw up a fault code most likely it should revert to a program map for expected airflow at boost and work off map sensor( unless thats faulty, mine recently was reading 150mbar too high top end and 70-80mbar too high at idle)
At the minute i have a slight boost leak i wouldnt know ive got if i wasnt logging data

 

[sussexa]

And p.s. where do you need to go over 130? Thats book top speed anyway.

 

[fruchty]

Thank you for your reply I'll try and log all those things tomorrow.

And it's not that I need to go over 130, it's just I have a feeling the car used to go faster so it a warning for me that the car is losing power.

 

[sussexa]

for maf confirmation values we can work out actual ve of engine with data and compare to standard ve table stored in ecu(ill post up table tonight)
but for example
boost pressure*(air density*cylinder displacement)= theoretical maf @ 100% ve

actual maf/theoretical maf=ve
at idle
1.0bar*(1.179* 477.5)=562.97
old datav from my car std =485/562.97=.86 or 86% ve
new data from moddified =508/562.97=.90 or 90% ve
not supprising ve has increased due to exhaust and turbo work.

at pressure
2.642bar*(1.179*477.5)=1487
actual maf1336.5/100%ve maf1487=.898 or 90%ve

if i remember right the data table goes from around 86% to 94% at differing revs/ pressure
and we should see maf ve calcs work out quite close on mechanically std car.

edit you will need approx air density from ambient temp and altitude

 

[sussexa]

heres that ve table(this is for 16v jtdm, the 8v would be a few percent less all over im guessing)
revs down, iq accross

 

[re668]

Thanks sussexa for all the info, that's really given me a list of things to go through, the MAF values are particularly useful,

I'll report back on my findings

 

[re668]

Sorry I've been reading your posts and I've not answered your questions. The cutting out problem is a weird one I can go months without it happening and then it can happen 4 times in a day, basically the engine dies completely for no more than a couple of seconds and then springs back to life ... no error codes are generated.

I should explain to stop any confusion when reading the rest of the post that my household has 2 x JDTM Sportings a 120 and a 150

I have cleaned the EGR valve as I had the classic symptoms on my 120 and after cleaning it fitted a restrictor, although the EGR on the 120 soots up the solenoid to the point of sticking whereas the 150 seems to be an altogether better job ...but it got a clean anyway and a restrictor.

Turbo pipes are all intact with no whooshing sound (another problem I had on the 120 so I know the noise ) -curing it on the 120 also got rid of a similar smokieness so I was really hoping to find a turbo pipe with a hole but I'm afraid not.

The map is an Angel Tuning map which was done at the same time as the 120 and I am very happy with the 120 which benefitted greatly. I actually asked for a map for the 150 which concentrated more on fuel economy than 195bhp that they offer, as the 150 was already a flying machine and the idea that they have screwed up with the mapping is just a straw I'm clutching at because I'm running out of ideas and it is an obvious overfuelling problem at high revs, I readily accept there a 1001 things that can contribute to that.

However I will work through your suggestions and see what I can come up with.

 

[sussexa]

that may be an issue then, i would imagine they have some sort of read protection on there map.
they may be willing to load your original map(they should have a copy, and id expect you to get a copy of original map on disc?) back on to prove its not there map to keep a happy customer worth a call to them
but be interesting to see some log data anyway
both posters try some injector cleaner maybe, and fruchty if you suspect injector issue from fes values a local garage could do a leak back test quickly and hopefully cheapish to confirm a badly blocked or badly worn injector, but id think that may show up worse at start up/idle?

 

[fruchty]

Hey thanks again for all your advice
I tried checking a couple of things and logging all that data in 4th is a bit of a problem so I need another person with me to hold the laptop (and I hope it'll work since I have a bluetooth obd connector that chokes a bit when you want to monitor a few different values simultaneously). I'll do them as soon as possible and post the graphs

I did check the injectors like in your video and three of them are are within +-1,5 while idling warm and one is around 3ish - when I upped the revs they all dropped to and around 0 so that should be ok I hope?


And on a unrelated note: did you reach any conclusion on your blue smoke when starting cold? I have the exact same "problem" as you did... If I remember correctly you found some oil leaking near the turbo housing?

 

[sussexa]

If those values are just after start up not too bad, if they are with warmed up engine and settled idle then that 3.0 is bad.
Try removing the engine cover, disconnect the injector plugs(engine off)and spray some electrical contact cleaner into the plug and the injector then work the plug in and out a few times to clean up contacts let dry and reconnect.
Check your values again, then try injector cleaner for a tank, then check again, if the same injector is still higher than others may be problem.
The injectors are coded and calculate expected flow from the code, the correction value i take as being the value of fuel+/- than calculated that was required to accelerate the crank at the desired speed as smooth as possible.
So ideally all+/-0 is all as expected 2inj + and 2inj- balance out,3 of one and 1 of another would be 1 far out and the other 3 compensating maybe.
By th way there is a good chance its number 3 thats worse, wiring loom issues are seen on vauxhalls and seen similar on alfas but not proved to be loom.
As far as the blue smoke is concearned, if you found the thread with 3 of us jtd150'S had same issue im sure fiat said it was a characteristic!!
I have tried many things, nothing confirmed anything as culpret.
Sometimes i get no smoke at all sometimes as in youtube vids, ive had 2nd hand set of injectors checked at diesel specialist no different.
Turbo turbine seal was proved to be found worn and potentially leaking oil into exhaust, but with newly rebuilt turbo fitted soon back to normal sometimes a puff, sometimes a cloud, sometimes nothing.
I vary good vpower diesel and normal diesel and now running millers additive and 2 stroke oil again.
I also convinced myself it was maybe a badly written map somewhere like cranking fuel map, and actually thought i cracked it but it returned again eventually.
I just wait till missus shuts her door till i turn key so it doesnt drift in to car.
Now ive seen a few more maps i might compare to alfas and vauxhalls, that ive so far never heard of having the same issue, see whats different.
Im sorta convinced it fuel not oil.
Ps logging is a pain, i use cable and its only long enough to perch half way on passanger seat so i shove a first aid box in there to stop laptop sliding on seat and wiggling lead(disconnecting fes,loosing data)

 

[fruchty]

I got those results after driving for 12,5miles and turning the car off for 10min to run an errand and then starting it again and measuring; i'll check again today after a 63 mile drive and no turning off... If i still get such the same values i'll take it to a mechanic for a check up at the end of the week since I need to get some other things checked out also.
I've read all those threads about blue smoke, yeah... I'll just stop worrying and keep checking the oil level regularly... So far, after 8kkm that I have this car, it didn't use any oil so I guess we're okay there
Please don't forget to write your finding here if you find anything in the other maps... Just a shot in the dark: i know that all 147s with the same engine had DPF, if that makes any difference by any chance? Don't know about the vauxhalls though

And again, thanks

 

[sussexa]

just checked this morning and most of the maps related to start up are identicle to the alfa gt ducati 170 hp model which i would assume has the latest version of the software.
dont worry anything i find ill put up.
before you go to mechanic you can try with fes to do a reset learnt parameters or something like that, if i clean my maf, map or injectors etc i usually do this to start a fresh id still run injector cleaner anyway i do at least twice a year.

 

[fruchty]

I'll try and sort it out since something is obviously up:

this is while idling (video is currently uploading)

 

[sussexa]

looks like number 3 is high and 1 low and 2 and 4 trying to balance out number 3.
have you tried cleaning the plug connector yet or added any inector cleaner.
the official spec ive read is +/-0.9 or possibly even +/-0.4 for our jtdm.
to be honest ive not noticed much difference between +/-0.5 and +/- 1.5 in the running of the engine.
but i did bugger mine up and had a reading around 4.0 i think ran realy bad
link to thread
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engines-ts-jts-jtd-and-v6/243473-1-9jtdm-injector-leak-check.html
this was how bad that 4.0 made mine run

 

[fruchty]

I haven't tried anything yet, just recorded the video as I'm not home till thursday and I don't have any tools with me
Here is the video I promised; the sound is bad since it was raining and you can't hear the engine, but when the values drop i revved it up to 2000 and once to 2500
At those rpms injector 2 shows some questionable data.
The most frustrating part anyway is I can't even get my hands on an allen key to remove the engine cover

http://youtu.be/p7LK_k5HuH4