Davren said:

I asked my local dealer when I collected the bushes, they said they didn't know because they don't fit them. They take the axle off and send it to a machine shop to have the bushes fitted. If the Fiat dealer doesn't know, then my guess is that the machine shop doesn't know either. Probably a few people driving around with incorrectly fitted bushes.

Click to expand...

I wonder if the reason Stilo's have such a bad rep with rear bushes is because they are incorrectly fitted most of the time?

I guess it would be the same for most dealers, send the subframe and bushes to a local machine shop? I wonder how many of them had the same thinking as my friend and reduced the interference fit to make the job easier. Perhaps its done more regularly than we think? I'm sure most engineers would come to the same conclusion. :idea:

Shadeyman said:

I wonder if the reason Stilo's have such a bad rep with rear bushes is because they are incorrectly fitted most of the time?

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There's a previous Rear Bush thread where someone had to fit new bushes three times within a few thousand miles. Can't find the thread now but I don't remember if the correct orientation was known about then.

Of course, his may have failed prematurely because he may have reduced the outer diameter of the bush. :devil:

Shadeyman said:

I guess it would be the same for most dealers, send the subframe and bushes to a local machine shop? I wonder how many of them had the same thinking as my friend and reduced the interference fit to make the job easier. Perhaps its done more regularly than we think? I'm sure most engineers would come to the same conclusion. :idea:

Click to expand...

What you should remember is that this has been an issue for years now.

You're find references throughout the Forum to this having been done over the years and I'd say the vast majority have been done with a heavy duty press.

It's fair to say that at least some have been done by reducing the clearance although I think you might be the first to actually suggest machining the bush.

And yet for all of this, as Davren points out, no one appears to be aware of the definitive technique that SHOULD be used. :shrug:

Argonought said:

definitive technique that SHOULD be used.

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"definitive technique" ... Not even Fiat seem to know.

Seems to be left to who ever fits them and in most cases thats a machine shop. :bang:

Hi.
Assuming they are fitted correctly on production and this is the first set of new bushes.
When you drop the axle knock off the end plates from the bush get your phone out and take a snap, I think the gaps in the rubber go top and bottom but check it on yours.
I have done several sets of these bushes now and I used a carbide sanding disc to reduce the bush diameter slightly.
My own stilo had new bushes 60,000 miles ago and the nearside one sounds like its going again could be a shock haven’t had time to check it yet.
It seems to be 50/60k is about the life of these bushes.

I did consider reaming out the bore that the bush sits in to reduce the interference fit. Even though it would only be a small amount I decided against it because if something went wrong:

Rear Bushes = £25 each
Rear Subframe = £700

I think my friend said it would require 0.09mm removing but as the bushes seem to vary a little in size and shape (depending on when and where they were manufactured) another reason we decided reaming was a bad idea.

Has anyone else actually reamed out the bore in the subframe?

just checked the Fiat Service News regarding the direction of the arrow- the arrow points in the driving direction and it is opposite to the welding seam (so if you would extend the line of the welding seam through the bush of the axle it would meet the arrow on the back.)
Unfortunately i can't copy the content, it's only readable or printable.

yellowstilo said:

Unfortunately i can't copy the content, it's only readable or printable.

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Thanks. I'd be interested to read it myself could you supply me with a link?

i don't have a link, i have the cd.....

This is how they should look

http://www.officinasantaca.com/attrezzature.html
How to change your rear bush in 10mins (with video)

Deckchair5 said:

View attachment 82325
This is how they should look

http://www.officinasantaca.com/attrezzature.html
How to change your rear bush in 10mins (with video)

Click to expand...

THANK YOU ! Just what I needed. :slayer:

Note though, the bush is filled with oil and exploding boiling oil in the face is what they used to do in medieval times and won't make you any prettier

Darven.

I spoke to a Fiat dealer this morning about how they replace the bushes.

Most do reduce the interference fit, wouldn't say how or if it was the bush or the subframe but I had the feeling it was the subframe(reamed to suit). Use the kit you brought and a very large three legged flywheel extractor. I was asked not to mention the name of the dealer or the machine shop they send them to but I think I finally have a few answers:

1. The bore in the subframes vary with model and age so the bushes are supplied at the larger end of the scale.

2. Reduce the interference fit(or buy a £20,000 press and specialised tool)

3. cut out the old bush, use the Fiat kit and Large fly wheel extractor(large thread ) to press the new one in.

All seems a bit simple but he asured me that was how it was done?

yellowstilo said:

Unfortunately i can't copy the content, it's only readable or printable.

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Thanks ys. Do you also have the official Fiat information for replacing the bushes?
Is there a Fiat special tool for the Stilo bush, if so could you post the part number of it.

Could you print, then scan, then post all the information so we can finally get to the bottom of this?

yellowstilo said:

i don't have a link, i have the cd.....

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Do you know anywhere to buy the CD? Many of us have the old eLEARN CD but it doesn't cover the bush replacement. I've had an eLEARN CD (60448575 - €75) on order with Fiat since September 2009 but they don't seem able to, or want to, supply it.

I think despite the European directive that they have to make technical information available, Fiat still don't want to supply it.

yellowstilo said:

i don't have a link, i have the cd.....

Click to expand...

When you have the relevant content visible, hold down Ctrl and press Print Screen. This will copy a screenshot to the clipboard. You can paste (Ctrl V) into a graphics programme and save as gif, or just paste straight into a word document and we'll sort it from there.

Thanks!

yellowstilo said:

just checked the Fiat Service News regarding the direction of the arrow- the arrow points in the driving direction and it is opposite to the welding seam (so if you would extend the line of the welding seam through the bush of the axle it would meet the arrow on the back.)
Unfortunately i can't copy the content, it's only readable or printable.

Click to expand...

Hi,
I have been giving this bush orentation alot of thought. The question i,m asking is it really that critical? If you think about it however it is fitted it only ever "twists" a certain amount and this can only determined by the movement of the rear suspension, i really cannot see how for arguments sake the "arrow" was at 12 oclock or 6 oclock the twisting moment will always be the same? I look forward to any thoughts on this .

Cheers

Kev W

I'd also thought about this and as you say, the bush only "twists a certain amount" according to suspension movement. I can't think of the actual reason why Fiat say it should be orientated in a particular direction, but if it didn't matter, they wouldn't go to the trouble of marking the bush and describing how it should be orientated in the New Bravo and Grande Punto eLEARN manuals.

For the purpose of this thread, as we now know how it should be orientated, we might aswell do it that way.

keviwal said:

Hi,
I have been giving this bush orentation alot of thought. The question i,m asking is it really that critical? If you think about it however it is fitted it only ever "twists" a certain amount and this can only determined by the movement of the rear suspension, i really cannot see how for arguments sake the "arrow" was at 12 oclock or 6 oclock the twisting moment will always be the same? I look forward to any thoughts on this .

Cheers

Kev W

Click to expand...

I also asked the same question and the answer I was given is YES.

The internal rubber structure is designed to use oil in chambers to absorb vibrations and give a quieter ride. Under extreme circumstances like hitting a large pot hole or hitting the brakes hard the oil filled chambers are not adequate so there are rubber stops/buffers incorperated into the design. These rubber stops/buffers have to be in the correct positions so alignment of the bush is critical if you want your new bushes to last more than a month or two.

Yes, it's because the internal passageways of the oil filled cavities of the bush are very cleverly designed, very much like a fluid shock absorber the oil is forced from one cavity to another. They give different resistance or stiffness to forces in one direction and more fluid damping in another. In one direction it has bump stops of almost solid rubber but in another direction it allows dampened movement


typical cross section of a fluid resilient bush

So it does a lot, it dampens low frequency noise, then, the next step, it dampens movement with the oil and then it has a rubber bump stop so the deflection can't go too far in one direction. That's why it's called a silentbloc. But that means it has to be inserted with the correct orientation


VW bush
I think getting them out would be easier and safer like this than the method shown in the video, just putting a chisel through the rubber, knock the centre portion out and then careful hacksaw of the outer sleeve as it's quite thin and soft metal and then tap that out. A few people have already done it that way on here safely and quickly

Steve148 said:

When you have the relevant content visible, hold down Ctrl and press Print Screen. This will copy a screenshot to the clipboard. You can paste (Ctrl V) into a graphics programme and save as gif, or just paste straight into a word document and we'll sort it from there.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

unfortunately i have to close the Service News application every time before i'm able to paste the screen contents which is only half of an A4 at a time.
I printed the contents (7 pages) and will scan it to a PDF format tomorrow at work and post it a.s.a.p. (hope it's still readable because of very small font)