keviwal said:

Stu,

yes i have seen those and in a word .............cr*p !!
they just do not look man enough for the job.
What you have to remember is that you have to put TONS of pressure on that bush to get it out, looking at that tool you would probably put POUNDS of pressure on the bush before the threaded bar picked and it all went pear shaped :bang:

Cheers,

Kev W

Click to expand...

I've been in touch with company, bit of a language problem but they say the replacement bushes only have a minimal interference fit and the tool is more than adequate for the job. We all know the original bushes had a heavy interference fit, probabely due to being installed in the factory. Also they were not originally intended as a replacement part for owners. I guess the bushes in Italy are slightly smaller and easier to fit now that they are being sold to owners to install for them selves?

As I plan to make sure the interference fit is reduced to a more managable level I'll have no need for Massive Threads or seriously Expensive Hydraulics.

A quality M12 bolt can produce forces of 2000kg. Thats enough for me and my rear bushes.

Shadeyman said:

A company in Italy makes a "Threaded Bush Replacment Tool" for the Stilo.

€151 delivered.

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Their current listing on eBay prices it at €143 delivered. One day left on this one, but they've been relisting it for over a year.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250571248914&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The listing says it's only suitable for inserting the bush, you still need to cut the old bush out.

I might have risked trying it if it removed and refitted the bush. Would be good to have a tool that did the job without having to remove the axle.

Davren said:

Would be good to have a tool that did the job without having to remove the axle.

Click to expand...

Original bushes were installed using a press so cutting them out is the best option and less you have a press.
Once you have changed them yourself making sure the interference fit is at a more managable level their threaded tool should easily do both jobs.

I don't think putting tons of pressure on the rear subframe unnecessarly is a good idea. Just reduce the interference fit to a more managable level, no need for huge heavly threaded tools or over priced hydraulic tools. Other manufacturers allow bushes to be replaced this way. Fiat now sell us the parts its up to us to use some common sense when fitting them.

Shadeyman said:

.....bit of a language problem but they say the replacement bushes only have a minimal interference fit

Click to expand...

So, is this statement being taken as fact

...as I don't remember a single case of anyone reporting the rear bushes could NOW be replaced with ease :chin:

As I plan to make sure the interference fit is reduced to a more managable level I'll have no need for Massive Threads or seriously Expensive Hydraulics.

Click to expand...

...but surely, having to sand it down is a contradiction in terms of making the job 'easier' :shrug:

Argonought said:

So, is this statement being taken as fact

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The point is these parts are not a "Factory Only" fit anymore so we use some "Common Sense" and reduce the intereference fit to a more managable level. Obviously the Italians have as they are already selling the tool to do the job. :bang:

Argonought said:

...but surely, having to sand it down is a contradiction in terms of making the job 'easier' :shrug:

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Firstly I'll not be "sanding" them down. They will be machined to a more managable level. I see no need for a heavy interference fit.

Secondly
No Multiple Huge Threaded device needed.
No expesive Hydraulic's needed.
Bushes can be replaced in situ.
If the bushes ever need to be replaced again they'll be easier to remove, using a simple single threaded tool because we used some common sense and reduced the interference fit.
As far as I'm concerned that makes the job easier.

That's all very well from your own "common sense" perspective as you put it but I'm still to be convinced it's the definitive answer.

I'm quite sure for many the idea that you purchase a part from Fiat only to have to take it way to have it machined before you can fit it properly must grate more than just a little

Surely it would be so much easier if the bush was machined in the 1st place or better still have 2 versions of the bush (post & pre-production). Therefore, IS SUCH A PART AVAILABLE

This job must have been done by many a workshop by now. You're not actually suggesting they're all fools for having used a heavy duty press are you ?

Argonought said:

That's all very well from your own "common sense" perspective as you put it but I'm still to be convinced it's the definitive answer.

I'm quite sure for many the idea that you purchase a part from Fiat only to have to take it way to have it machined before you can fit it properly must grate more than just a little

Surely it would be so much easier if the bush was machined in the 1st place or better still have 2 versions of the bush (post & pre-production). Therefore, IS SUCH A PART AVAILABLE

This job must have been done by many a workshop by now. You're not actually suggesting they're all fools for having used a heavy duty press are you ?

Click to expand...

Good points Argo. I'm yet to be convinced that machining away the interference fit won't leave you with a bush not able to do what it was designed to do, because it will be able to move around inside the beam.

Shadeyman said:

Firstly I'll not be "sanding" them down. They will be machined to a more managable level. I see no need for a heavy interference fit.

Click to expand...

Personally, I'd rather not have to reduce the diameter of the bush, I suspect Fiat have designed them that way for a reason.

The bushes have been available since 2005 and since then, I suspect numerous dealers have contacted Fiat technical about the problem yet still, despite several part number changes, the diameter of the bush has not been reduced. In fact in another thread, it was reported the the diameter of the new part number bush is slightly larger than the previous one.

Other than sanding them, I don't see how they can be machined. The outer metal cylinder of the bush is what appears to be about 1mm thickness so would be difficult to hold securely in a lathe. Also, there's a lip on one end of the cylinder so the bush could only be mounted by the opposite end meaning only one end could be machined.

The cylinder is also slightly oval in cross section (also reported in another thread) so if turned in a lathe, the tool would only cut the longer ends of the oval.

It's unfortunate that we don't have access to the official Fiat procedure for replacing the bushes. It's not only pressing them in, we still don't know for sure which way the bushes should be orientated in the axle housing. This information must have been made available to dealers in a service bulletin when the bushes became available and should also be on the dealer's online version of eLEARN.

Any Fiat techs reading this that can post the information?

Argonought said:

I'm quite sure for many the idea that you purchase a part from Fiat only to have to take it way to have it machined before you can fit it properly must grate more than just a little

Click to expand...

Seems to be the case here in the UK.

Argonought said:

Surely it would be so much easier if the bush was machined in the 1st place or better still have 2 versions of the bush (post & pre-production). Therefore, IS SUCH A PART AVAILABLE

Click to expand...

Just one version with a more managable interference fit would be the sensible option and I'm trying to find out if such a part truely exists. Care to help?

Argonought said:

This job must have been done by many a workshop by now. You're not actually suggesting they're all fools for having used a heavy duty press are you ?

Click to expand...

I'm suggesting most of them used some common sence and took a grinder/sand paper to the bushes to make their job easier.

Yellow Peril said:

I'm yet to be convinced that machining away the interference fit won't leave you with a bush not able to do what it was designed to do, because it will be able to move around inside the beam.

Click to expand...

The amount that has to be removed is very small and wont effect the performance of the bush as long as its kept cool during the process.

Davren said:

Other than sanding them, I don't see how they can be machined. The outer metal cylinder of the bush is what appears to be about 1mm thickness so would be difficult to hold securely in a lathe. Also, there's a lip on one end of the cylinder so the bush could only be mounted by the opposite end meaning only one end could be machined.

The cylinder is also slightly oval in cross section (also reported in another thread) so if turned in a lathe, the tool would only cut the longer ends of the oval.

It's unfortunate that we don't have access to the official Fiat procedure for replacing the bushes. It's not only pressing them in, we still don't know for sure which way the bushes should be orientated in the axle housing. This information must have been made available to dealers in a service bulletin when the bushes became available and should also be on the dealer's online version of eLEARN.

Any Fiat techs reading this that can post the information?

Click to expand...

I've already had my bushes machined down on a lathe. My friend has already started making the tool in my previous post. He used the 3 pronged part, one of the round plates and secured the bush to some threaded rod. Holding the treaded rod in the lathe he carefully machined them. He measured the bushes before hand and did say one was slightly oval but not both. I asked if machining the oval out would effect the bushes performance. His reply was NO, due to the outer cylinder being so thin it would easily form back into the slight oval if needed when refitted into the subframe. He's some sort of engineer for Rolls Royce so of course I didn't argue.

Fiat Techs.

Originally posted by Davren:

"It's unfortunate that we don't have access to the official Fiat procedure for replacing the bushes. It's not only pressing them in, we still don't know for sure which way the bushes should be orientated in the axle housing. This information must have been made available to dealers in a service bulletin when the bushes became available and should also be on the dealer's online version of eLEARN. "


the bush has to be pressed in with the arrow following the welding seam of the axle.

Shadeyman said:

I've already had my bushes machined down on a lathe. My friend has already started making the tool in my previous post. He used the 3 pronged part, one of the round plates and secured the bush to some threaded rod. Holding the treaded rod in the lathe he carefully machined them. He measured the bushes before hand and did say one was slightly oval but not both. I asked if machining the oval out would effect the bushes performance. His reply was NO, due to the outer cylinder being so thin it would easily form back into the slight oval if needed when refitted into the subframe. He's some sort of engineer for Rolls Royce so of course I didn't argue.

Click to expand...

Do you mean the Italian tool or the Franklin one?

I had considered the possibility of mounting the bush in a lathe using a bolt through the center hole but thought that as the center is only held by the rubber, the outer cylinder wouldn't remain central when turned. I hadn't considered bringing the three pronged part into the equation to hold it with.

I doubt the oval is intentional, probably just goes that way during production of the bush.

yellowstilo said:

the bush has to be pressed in with the arrow following the welding seam of the axle.

Click to expand...

My new bushes (part number 51840600) don't have any arrows on them.



I can work out where the arrow should be from a previously posted picture of a bush with the arrow, and the unequally spaced cutouts in the domed end washer.

The welded seam on the axle runs from the bush towards the rear of the car. Should the arrow point backwards or forwards in relation to the car?

Davren said:

The bushes have been available since 2005 and since then, I suspect numerous dealers have contacted Fiat technical about the problem yet still, despite several part number changes, the diameter of the bush has not been reduced. In fact in another thread, it was reported the the diameter of the new part number bush is slightly larger than the previous one.

Click to expand...

Does this mean that seen as these new bushes have been in production since 2005 that they will be fitted to a car made in 2006?
Or am I being too hopefull here

Davren said:

Do you mean the Italian tool or the Franklin one?

Click to expand...

Neither, I've had my own made but similar to both.

Davren said:

Should the arrow point backwards or forwards in relation to the car?

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In the direction of travel I believe.

Shadeyman said:

He measured the bushes before hand and did say one was slightly oval but not both. I asked if machining the oval out would effect the bushes performance. His reply was NO, due to the outer cylinder being so thin it would easily form back into the slight oval if needed when refitted into the subframe. He's some sort of engineer for Rolls Royce so of course I didn't argue.

Click to expand...

:chin: Rolls Royce engineer or not, there does appear to be a potentially serious weakness in that logic.

If we surmise that some bushes are oval due to being under stress and this ovalness is normally corrected once the bush is pressed into the subframe then:

If you then machine this bush whilst it's still distorted then effectively you've permanently made if oval and the act of pressing it into the subframe will leave it in this permanent oval state.

I've never even seen one of these in the flesh so it's quite possible the ovalness issue can be ignored but I think it's unwise not to consider such implications.

B3NNETT said:

Does this mean that seen as these new bushes have been in production since 2005 that they will be fitted to a car made in 2006?
Or am I being too hopefull here

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All Stilos have a similar bush but according to the part number change dates, a 2006 car is likely to have been produced with part number 50706312 or 51795336 bushes.

Argonought said:

:chin: Rolls Royce engineer or not, there does appear to be a potentially serious weakness in that logic.

If we surmise that some bushes are oval due to being under stress and this ovalness is normally corrected once the bush is pressed into the subframe then:

If you then machine this bush whilst it's still distorted then effectively you've permanently made if oval and the act of pressing it into the subframe will leave it in this permanent oval state.

I've never even seen one of these in the flesh so it's quite possible the ovalness issue can be ignored but I think it's unwise not to consider such implications.

Click to expand...

As I said earlier only one was oval and only a very small amount. So I tend to agree with Davren and my friend, I doubt the oval is intentional, probably just goes that way during production due to the outer cylinder being so thin and machining it out will not effect the performance of the bush.

Shadeyman said:

In the direction of travel I believe.

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That's the problem "I believe"

It's been posted in previous threads that the arrow should point towards the welded seam and that it should point in the direction of travel.

We need a definative answer.

Davren said:

That's the problem "I believe"

It's been posted in previous threads that the arrow should point towards the welded seam and that it should point in the direction of travel.

We need a definative answer.

Click to expand...

Dam! Everything was going so well.

I live 200 yards away from Guest - Fiat Dealer. I'll be in there first thing tomorrow morning to find the answer.

I asked my local dealer when I collected the bushes, they said they didn't know because they don't fit them. They take the axle off and send it to a machine shop to have the bushes fitted. If the Fiat dealer doesn't know, then my guess is that the machine shop doesn't know either. Probably a few people driving around with incorrectly fitted bushes.