Hi,
Both are 9.6 compression.
Matt.
Both are 9.6 compression.
Matt.
Technical Interference or non
- Thread starter CWUK82
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical Interference or non
Also -
Punto 1242cc 8v 188A4.000 engine - 9.5 compression (Autodata - non interference)
Panda 1242cc 8 188A4.000 engine - 9.8 compression (Autodata - Interference)
Matt.
Punto 1242cc 8v 188A4.000 engine - 9.5 compression (Autodata - non interference)
Panda 1242cc 8 188A4.000 engine - 9.8 compression (Autodata - Interference)
Matt.
So it does look like that the MK2 Panda after all might have an interference engine (1.1 and 1.2).
I wrote to Honestjohn who replied with this:
'I sat next to one of FIAT's engine men at a car launch a few years ago and her told me that only the 999cc Fire engines were guaranteed non interference. Some 1,108s were,depending on compression ration. But 1,242s were not.'
Matt.
I wrote to Honestjohn who replied with this:
'I sat next to one of FIAT's engine men at a car launch a few years ago and her told me that only the 999cc Fire engines were guaranteed non interference. Some 1,108s were,depending on compression ration. But 1,242s were not.'
Matt.
GeorgeDamper
Established member
TBQ127 timing belt fits Punto & Panda (early models). Same block - same belt - same BHP and is shown to fit both cars up to engine number 2533528.
http://www.caarparts.co.uk/service-parts/timing-belts/Fiat/Punto/all/1.2/2002/Parts.aspx
http://www.caarparts.co.uk/Service-Parts/Timing-Belts/Fiat/Panda/all/1.2/2009/Parts.aspx
http://www.caarparts.co.uk/service-parts/timing-belts/Fiat/Punto/all/1.2/2002/Parts.aspx
http://www.caarparts.co.uk/Service-Parts/Timing-Belts/Fiat/Panda/all/1.2/2009/Parts.aspx
Sorry, I was under the impression that the 2003-2011 Panda was the MK2 and the Panda currently on sale is the MK3. My mistake! 
Autodata has three engine tunes for the 188A4.000 on the Panda MK3 (2003-2011)
Square oil filler cap : -2533527
Square oil filler cap : 2533528 -
With round oil cap filler
All are referred to as interference.
The Punto MK2 (after 2001) 188A4.000 is classed as freewheeling.
I can only assume it's down to the different compression ratios for the engines. Punto 9.5 and Panda 9.8
Matt.
Autodata has three engine tunes for the 188A4.000 on the Panda MK3 (2003-2011)
Square oil filler cap : -2533527
Square oil filler cap : 2533528 -
With round oil cap filler
All are referred to as interference.
The Punto MK2 (after 2001) 188A4.000 is classed as freewheeling.
I can only assume it's down to the different compression ratios for the engines. Punto 9.5 and Panda 9.8
Matt.
I have to disagree, the early panda's with square filler cars are NON-interference. When the engines with round filler caps came into production that's when things get murky, as some are just the same as early engines but with a different rocker covers. As far as I was aware, all 60bhp engines are non interfere while those with increased outputs such as 65bhp with the grande punto and latter 69bhp models with VVT are interference
Thanks, this is what I've always believed, perhaps AutoData are unsure and say that they are interference just to cover themselves
I doubt Autodata said the Panda MK3 1.1 and 1.2 (round or square cap) are interference to cover themselves.
They stated the 1.2 (188A4.000) Punto 1.2 and Seicento 1.1 are freewheeling.
The FIAT engine designer said to HonestJohn that no 1.2 petrol engines were ever non-interference. He said some 1.1 engines were, but not the Panda MK3.
Also, there was a thread on the Grande Punto pages referring to a 1.2 8v (65bhp) and the cambelt snapped resulting in 8 bent valves.
Matt.
They stated the 1.2 (188A4.000) Punto 1.2 and Seicento 1.1 are freewheeling.
The FIAT engine designer said to HonestJohn that no 1.2 petrol engines were ever non-interference. He said some 1.1 engines were, but not the Panda MK3.
Also, there was a thread on the Grande Punto pages referring to a 1.2 8v (65bhp) and the cambelt snapped resulting in 8 bent valves.
Matt.
That's because they are a different engine. The earlier 60bhp models are essentially the same as those found in the punto mk2 albeit with a modified head-gasket, lightened pistons and valves, which may account for the very small increase in compression. But latter models with more power have much higher compression ratios and are thus interference engines
Bizarrely AutoData said the Punto MK2 1.2 8v before 2001 was an interference. However they state that the Punto MK2 1.2 8V after 2001 was non-interference. Anyone know why that is?
Matt.
Matt.
I would conclude on this occasion AutoData is incorrect. They produce data for all types of cars, it's only wise to assume that sometimes their information is inaccurate.
I've checked information on other cars, such as the 1.3 OHV engine on the Ford KA (1996-2008) and they stated the engine was chain driven and non-interference. Which is correct.
I checked my older Ford Focus (HWDA) 1.6 petrol 100ps and it was also correct, as was my mum's C3 Picasso HDi. All the info matched the car perfectly.
Now, if the engine in the Punto MK2 1.2 8v (188A4.000) AFTER 2001 matches the spec for the Panda 1.2 (2003-2011) then it would be a genuine mistake. However, I'm going to side with Autodata for now until proven otherwise.
Matt
I checked my older Ford Focus (HWDA) 1.6 petrol 100ps and it was also correct, as was my mum's C3 Picasso HDi. All the info matched the car perfectly.
Now, if the engine in the Punto MK2 1.2 8v (188A4.000) AFTER 2001 matches the spec for the Panda 1.2 (2003-2011) then it would be a genuine mistake. However, I'm going to side with Autodata for now until proven otherwise.
Matt
2 points;
FIAT term the 2003 to 2012 as a "Mk.2"( 2nd body plan
)our 2004 Panda 1108cc has had it's timing out several times,
7 teeth out of time just required re-timing.. no engine damage was done,
personally I've NOT come across any FIAT of this generation engine having suffered any valve / piston damage,
BUT as is often said , it's such a cheap + simple thing to deal with get the belt + pump KIT changed anyway..,
Charlie
2 points;
FIAT term the 2003 to 2012 as a "Mk.2"( 2nd body plan
Mk2 or gen2
Always seems to be 2nd generation, but mk3 as mentioned also. Although even wiki seems to change depending upon who has mucked about with it last :bang:
I personally would have stated the original Panda, the one which is also named the Seat Marbella as the MK1.
I would state the Panda built between 2003-2011 as the MK2
and
The MK3 would be the current Panda on sale.
Matt.
I would state the Panda built between 2003-2011 as the MK2
and
The MK3 would be the current Panda on sale.
Matt.
But its wrong, mk1 and mk2 are 1st gen, but have very few compatible parts, hence being different mk's
What are we trying to achieve with this thread?
Are we trying to determine which engines we could ignore the cambelt change on to potentially save money? Wait until it breaks, then replace? Or are we perhaps trying to reassure ourselves that if we do it wrong we could get away with it?
If we change it when it is due, we should have no problems, so who cares? Most engines out there are interference, as it s difficult to get the power and emissions without clearances being tight.
If it breaks, an interference engine will need more work, a non-interference will give us a sigh of relief. Knowing in advance gives us what exactly?
Here's a plan.
Find your engine number.
Remove the cambelt.
Turn the camshaft to max valve lift.
Turn the engine vigorously, by hand or on the starter.
List the results on this thread so we all know.
A job for us all this weekend.:devil:
Are we trying to determine which engines we could ignore the cambelt change on to potentially save money? Wait until it breaks, then replace? Or are we perhaps trying to reassure ourselves that if we do it wrong we could get away with it?
If we change it when it is due, we should have no problems, so who cares? Most engines out there are interference, as it s difficult to get the power and emissions without clearances being tight.
If it breaks, an interference engine will need more work, a non-interference will give us a sigh of relief. Knowing in advance gives us what exactly?
Here's a plan.
Find your engine number.
Remove the cambelt.
Turn the camshaft to max valve lift.
Turn the engine vigorously, by hand or on the starter.
List the results on this thread so we all know.
A job for us all this weekend.:devil:
Hi,
I wasn't raising this topic to upset anyone or to insult anybody's intelligence regarding these engines.
My main concern was that FIAT FIRE engines (8v and non vvt) were/are considered by nearly all members to be of a non-interference nature. Which is fine, however I'm worried that some people may leave their timing belt until it's too late thus resulting in damage.
Therefore, stumbling across the info from Honest John (after he spoke to the Fiat engine designer for the 1.2) and Autodata, I was literally just putting the word out there.
Matt.
I wasn't raising this topic to upset anyone or to insult anybody's intelligence regarding these engines.
My main concern was that FIAT FIRE engines (8v and non vvt) were/are considered by nearly all members to be of a non-interference nature. Which is fine, however I'm worried that some people may leave their timing belt until it's too late thus resulting in damage.
Therefore, stumbling across the info from Honest John (after he spoke to the Fiat engine designer for the 1.2) and Autodata, I was literally just putting the word out there.
Matt.
