Got my lady a Panda Semi Auto Eleganza...

Can anyone confirm what the sales person told me...

It has EBD ABS?

Its uses a similar auto system to the Alfa Selespeeds and does not have a clutch to replace/ fail?

It is a 1.2 60BHP 8 valve engine, which means if the belt goes the head is safe?

Belt change is not required until 72,000 miles?

Thanks all!

ps. Is there anything else I should know about these Autos and has anyone ever mapped one for more power?

The clutch is certainly there & can certainly fail, the only difference is there is no clutch pedal, performance/ top speed etc. is same as manual version

Thanks for the info!

Thought it must have a clutch... what about the engine/ belt, is it fail safe?

Also anyone know how long the clutch's last on the 1.2 Autos?

Do you go through a lot of clutches and belts then? I've never had to replace either. Get it serviced regularly, and don't panic!

Not worried...

Just like to be in the knowledge

clutch in dualogic can wear & fail due to bad driving habits, the rep who took me out in a demonstrator Idea auto to view a panda at their other place never touched the handbrake from start to finish,
when at a junction where rollback might occur he was tapping the brake /gas pedal alternatively causing the clutch to constantly engage /disengage & the vehicle to creep/roll back & forth, when stuck in traffic for a minute or two on a hill he was doing the same thing ,wouldn't want to be the buyer of that vehicle lol

Some reps don't know how to drive!

Thanks for the tips... can anyone confirm that the 'Eleganzas' have EBD, also is the engine an 8v or 16v?

Also when are belts due? And when do the belts really start to fail?

Thanks all!

pietch said:

...is the engine an 8v or 16v?

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The petrols have 8v engines. The Multijet has a 16V engine, and also no cambelt to fail.

The 1.2 engine is safe if the rubber band snaps:slayer:

hi...I can confirm you have abs with ebd. Just finished 2 years with a manual Eleganza.
The ABS works well,only used the once,but got me out of big mess on a frozen Shropshire unclassified in winter 2005..

Thanks for the info.... I'm happy I have EBD now!

Engine's are fail-safe and cambelt intervals are 72k or 5 years whichever comes first. This is why we usually replace them on the 60k service (5th year).

The gearbox/clutch is practically the same as a normal manual 'box, with only the addition of the electro-hydraulic actuators to perform the shifts, so clutch life should be no different.

I'm not sure if remapping is wise on these, the EFI and duallogic ECU's are closely interlinked and various strategy maps are referred to whilst driving which could be tricky to adjust/get around.

I am ery pleased that the engine is fal safe, the Panda is really impressive for what it costs! I enjoy having a drive in it every now and again!

Dannyboy... I agree, mapping would just confuse things. I'll leave it be.

Are there any inherent problems with the autobox... I remembering a mechanic was re-calabrating one with his laptop in the showroom, why is this?

Duallogic faults are rare. The system self-learns the biting point itself, though there can be occasions where something outside of its adjustability can cause issues, like a clutch fault (faulty pressure plate/ oil contamination), or driver error/abuse, but again- these are outside of it's control and not inherent faults in the actuators. The system is also hugely more reliable than the Alfa Selespeed design (something us Fiat techs are glad with! )

If you saw a Tech calibrating a Duallogic in the showroom it's probable that the battery had been flat (they sit in there for weeks on end) and therefore needed the clutch learn to be performed before the car was taken for a roadtest to ensure it was 100%.

D4nny8oy:

I think my dual logic clutch may be failing... its getting more juddery when cold and is not like when I bought it. The problem only occurs at biting point.

Its had a new battery so may have lost clutch memory (could it just need a reporgramme like what I saw at the fiat dealers?) or does it need a new clutch - mileage is about 50k?

If so who can I trust with the clutch? Mr. Clutch or it is a specialist job requiring fiat to do it?

Help advice much appreciated!

Thanks

Hi, the juddering issue could be tricky to diagnose without driving the vehicle first, though I'll give it a go.

If you press the throttle gently so you can feel the clutch literally just biting and taking up drive, does it seem to come in and out repeatedly in a pulsing sensation until the vehicle is rolling? If so, it sounds like the clutch learn is needed (approx 1 hour on Examiner inc. diag).

If however it's a violent and rapid jerking/shuddering when pulling away normally in 1st/2nd/reverse as the clutch bites fully, then it sounds more like a fault in the clutch plate and requires a new clutch.

Regarding replacing the clutch- the job itself is little different to a normal Panda clutch, though extra care is needed with the actuator unit as well as calibrating everything afterwards- something which only a Dealer is able to do as it requires using the Examiner equipment. Unfortunately Mr Clutch has a dubious reputation throughout the trade and several bad posts are on here in the Garages section (try the Search option).

Hope this helps.

Hi.

Thanks for the help!

When I press the throttle I feel the clutch literally just biting and taking up drive it then stays in gear (does not come in and out) but jerks, I see the rev's gfoing as low as 500 rpm. Sounds like it could be a bit of both. However it is worse when cold, which may mean it could be an electronic fault such as an air flow meter or missfire?

Is there away around the clutch learn - can I get the car to do it withouy going to fiat?

Also and idea on costs for a clutch replacement and/ or 1 hour for recalibration at fiat?

Cheers!

These alleged 'autos' are pitiful. Apart from their appalingly rough gearchanges I've seen too many 3 year old cars (varying makes) with gear selection faults etc. - although not Fiats.

upnorth said:

These alleged 'autos' are pitiful. Apart from their appalingly rough gearchanges I've seen too many 3 year old cars (varying makes) with gear selection faults etc. - although not Fiats.

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A rather innacurate statement there 'These alleged 'autos' are pitiful.'

Smart & some of the others certainly are not as smooth as the Panda, mine is far smoother than a manual version & has amazed would be doubters I have given a lift to.
Be aware that most makes use electric servo's to shove in the gears & clutch whereas Fiat are using super smooth hydraulics

izzy eckerslike said:

A rather innacurate statement there 'These alleged 'autos' are pitiful.'

Smart & some of the others certainly are not as smooth as the Panda, mine is far smoother than a manual version & has amazed would be doubters I have given a lift to.
Be aware that most makes use electric servo's to shove in the gears & clutch whereas Fiat are using super smooth hydraulics

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I can only agree. I have dualogic in my 3 year old Lancia Ypsilon and it has very smooth gearchanges.