I see they do a version for the 105 also, bringing it up to 130bhp!
General Is the twinair engine worth then£1200 premium
- Thread starter Billytwoshoes
- Start date
Currently reading:
General Is the twinair engine worth then£1200 premium
I see they do a version for the 105 also, bringing it up to 130bhp!
A 130bhp 105S 500 would be an interesting alternative to a stock 135bhp Abarth. Having now spoken to TMC they certainly do sound like they know they're stuff and are at the more 'conservative' end of the tuning box market in terms of remapping parameters. Hmmmm......... !
Hmmm is right! Re the 85/100bhp, I'd like to know a bit more about it though. Is it switchable? Where does max torque arrive? Ideally I would like 3 modes - standard Eco, standard Eco off, TMC on - all easily switchable. I like the existing max torque kicking in at 1900 rpm, it makes the car very tractable low down and great for slugging around town in 3rd or 4th, I wonder is this enhanced or does peak torque arrive later as in the 105 at 3000? Also the big question of warranty is also a concern. Then there's the question of mpg, that should be interesting! These remaps always intrigue me as to why manufacturers dident optimise them in the first place particularly if improved mpg is possible.
Last edited:
TwinAir Newbie
Member
130 BHP from 875cc! Gulp! 
The warranty would surely go out of the window.
I won't be doing anything as the 500 is the named car for our 20 year daughter and her insurance is enough already.
The misses wouldn't have it done to her 4x4 Panda as it is still under warranty.
The Panda is now tanked up with premium petrol so I'll take it out over the next few days.
The warranty would surely go out of the window.
I won't be doing anything as the 500 is the named car for our 20 year daughter and her insurance is enough already.
The misses wouldn't have it done to her 4x4 Panda as it is still under warranty.
The Panda is now tanked up with premium petrol so I'll take it out over the next few days.
These boxes are plug&play and are not switchable - the only thing that switches is the Fiat ECO button. The 'remapping' works in both ECO and non-ECO modes and the latter is just a remapped version of what it was before, so nothing changes in that regard.
Clearly peak torque is increased and this will occur higher up the rev band - at least that's how it felt. But, I firmly believe that the level of torque that you feel on the standard engine at 1900rpm is still there, so the car felt just as driveable and perky around town, but when given more gas and revs it takes on a higher level altogether. We're not talking a massive increase, but I'd expect to see the torque curve have a more progressive, rising profile, rather than the flat-top engineered version that most manufacturers code into their software these days. This is how they deliver a very full-feeling torque curve which just keeps on pulling over a large rev range and gives that feeling of 'lots of low-down pulling power'. The TMC box simply made the car feel stronger higher up the rev range, which entertained me no end.
In fact I think this supports the safe approach that I think TMC take, ie: NOT increasing torque too much at the lower end, as this is what puts strain on components and can cause problems. It's very easy to map a turbo car to produce humungous amounts of torque when the turbo initially spools up and whilst this might be a laugh for a day or so, it will soon become frustrating to control and drive smoothly and will also hurt other components. To map a car intelligently can enhance the overall performance I think, without undue impact elsewhere. At least that's what it felt like to me. I had a cheap remap on a Subaru Impreza that felt awesome on the way home, but I soon went back to get it updated properly.....
Warranty will of course be out of the window, but then if you are willing to take the risk and fund the consequences of something failing, then all well and good. And of course you can drive it just as gently as you did without a remap and maintain the same economy, it's just that if you use the extra performance then of course economy will fall away I guess.
Most manufacturers maintain performance differences using software to ensure that one model doesn't interfere with the sales of something higher up the range with more standard performance and although this may not apply to the Panda TA, there was clearly 'space' for a 105bhp 500, so a stock 85bhp version can be sold for less. Audi made an outstanding engine in their B8 S4 Saloon - a 3.0l V6 Supercharged unit that was detuned to 333bhp to fit with the 'sensible' S-series buyer. But a simple change of pulley, airfilter and a remap takes that to over 500bhp and trashes the RS4 in every regard with maybe the exception of the V8 angry bark (seeing as it's a V6....). Clearly that engine was designed and destined for greater things and was kept under a tight leash to make sure RS buyers bought the RS version. And these mapped S4's are just as reliable as the stock units, so they were clearly engineered to do this at the start (+170bhp is way more than anyone ever expected!).
As you may be able to tell, I love the science of engine control and my experience with the TMC box suggests that they've done a good job and I'd consider one if I wasn't still so excited about my standard car right now!
Thanks for that, yeh it's interesting, I think I'd have to drive one first before taking the plunge or else be really convinced by a good few owners who have gone there. Pricey enough too. I drive a 500 TA btw not a Panda. I've read that the 105 uses multi-air 2 technology whatever that is, apparently something to do with a revised inlet/exhaust combined manifold according to Auto Italia! Obviously a different map too. It's interesting too that the 105 produces only the same torque figure as the 85 albeit at 3000 not 1900. My 500 only has 7500 miles up and is really only run in now so I probably won't mess with it for a while tempting and all that it is!
Me too
Just thinking about this again, there must be other differences between the stock 85 and 105 TA then just a remap. If there wasent then in theory TMC could remap the 85 to 130bhp as per what they achieve from the 105. There must be a turbo difference and whatever this multiair 2 technology does must be a difference also.
There will indeed be differences between the 85 and 105 engines, as all the remappers generally do is 'tune' into the over-engineered tolerances that are built into all factory setups to cover for folks who do all they can to harm an engine, such as never servicing it, thrashing it from cold, running it on cheap nasty fuel, driving the life out of it and generally being herberts. If you always run on top fuel only, always let the engine warm up properly before driving hard, have it serviced every year (and a proper one at that with oil/filter changes, not those pointless 'inspection only' things that a Peugeot dealer did to my wife's 206CC a few years ago where they didn't even remove the wheels.....!) and drive with mechanical sympathy, then the remapping box/tune will probably be fine - PROVIDED IT'S BEEN DEVELOPED BY A REPUTABLE and knowledgeable outfit.
I am considering one as I like to think I fit into the good side of the above comparison!
babbo_umbro
Established member
There will indeed be differences between the 85 and 105 engines, as all the remappers generally do is 'tune' into the over-engineered tolerances that are built into all factory setups to cover for folks who do all they can to harm an engine, such as never servicing it, thrashing it from cold, running it on cheap nasty fuel, driving the life out of it and generally being herberts. If you always run on top fuel only, always let the engine warm up properly before driving hard, have it serviced every year (and a proper one at that with oil/filter changes, not those pointless 'inspection only' things that a Peugeot dealer did to my wife's 206CC a few years ago where they didn't even remove the wheels.....!) and drive with mechanical sympathy, then the remapping box/tune will probably be fine - PROVIDED IT'S BEEN DEVELOPED BY A REPUTABLE and knowledgeable outfit.
I am considering one as I like to think I fit into the good side of the above comparison!
Exactly.
There will indeed be differences between the 85 and 105 engines, as all the remappers generally do is 'tune' into the over-engineered tolerances that are built into all factory setups to cover for folks who do all they can to harm an engine, such as never servicing it, thrashing it from cold, running it on cheap nasty fuel, driving the life out of it and generally being herberts. If you always run on top fuel only, always let the engine warm up properly before driving hard, have it serviced every year (and a proper one at that with oil/filter changes, not those pointless 'inspection only' things that a Peugeot dealer did to my wife's 206CC a few years ago where they didn't even remove the wheels.....!) and drive with mechanical sympathy, then the remapping box/tune will probably be fine - PROVIDED IT'S BEEN DEVELOPED BY A REPUTABLE and knowledgeable outfit.
I am considering one as I like to think I fit into the good side of the above comparison!
Yeah, me too
