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Technical 160 manual non starter (sort of).

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Technical 160 manual non starter (sort of).

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Deefordog

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Our 2008 16k miles 160 MH has started impeccably hot or cold for the past 18 months. Arrived at a camp site today after a 30 mile drive, stopped the engine and then went to restart - nothing. Driver's window was down and wouldn't go up, no lights on dash - nothing. Only thing that did happen was when turning the key, the dash needles flickered and there was a fast clicking sound but not from the starter motor. Central locking on the plip wouldn't work either. I thought that if the battery was a bit flat, at least the windows would have made some effort to close.


Checked battery voltage with multimeter and was healthy at 13.9v. Earth strap looks OK (not corroded) but haven't undone the ends to see if they're clean and giving a good contact.


Now the odd part - in the hope that disconnecting the battery might get us running, I disconnected the +ve side on the battery, left it 20 seconds and reconnected it. Success, engine fired up no problem.


3 hours later and all seems well after several on and offs. However, at the back of my mind is the fact that if it's done it once, it could/will fail to start again.


Any ideas you Ducato gurus?
 
Deefordog said:
Our 2008 16k miles 160 MH has started impeccably hot or cold for the past 18 months. Arrived at a camp site today after a 30 mile drive, stopped the engine and then went to restart - nothing. Driver's window was down and wouldn't go up, no lights on dash - nothing. Only thing that did happen was when turning the key, the dash needles flickered and there was a fast clicking sound but not from the starter motor. Central locking on the plip wouldn't work either. I thought that if the battery was a bit flat, at least the windows would have made some effort to close.


Checked battery voltage with multimeter and was healthy at 13.9v. Earth strap looks OK (not corroded) but haven't undone the ends to see if they're clean and giving a good contact.


Now the odd part - in the hope that disconnecting the battery might get us running, I disconnected the +ve side on the battery, left it 20 seconds and reconnected it. Success, engine fired up no problem.


3 hours later and all seems well after several on and offs. However, at the back of my mind is the fact that if it's done it once, it could/will fail to start again.


Any ideas you Ducato gurus?
Click to expand...

the neg. battery EARTH cables tend to break down internally ( NOT furry contacts)

worth replacing anyway..,

better test with the meter would be ;

battery positive , to engine metal as Negative..;)

Charlie
 
Thanks Charlie, will source a new earth strap asap. Sod's law says that we're one week into a three week holiday - damn.


I did check the voltage under the bonnet from the +ve terminal under the black cover thingy with the lifting eye as the -ve/ground. Is there an acceptable resistance reading across the earth strap that I should be looking at?
 
Not easily tested with a meter. It will test ok on a meter but the poor link won't carry 40+ amps needed to start. You could fit a jumper cable as a temp fix if you are away from other options but will need to secure it well and of course won't last at all long.
 
Going to collect a new cable next Monday from Halfrauds whilst travelling.


Doh - forgot to measure the old one, hopefully a 9" one will be long enough.
 
Goodo. It is quite possible that your tinkering will have fixed it. Corrosion is a very common problem with this on all engines and you likely have Re established a good contact for a while longer. Your miles should be too low for a vibration crack. . .
 
Also came across a small motor factors today in the middle of nowhere today so picked up a cheap set of jump leads @ £14. Only really need the black -ve cable in case I need to establish a good earth between the engine and chassis. Hopefully this will get us going if the issue reoccurs before Monday.
 
The fact that you disconnected the + cable and reconnected seems to indicate that the + cable to the battery connection might be more likely as the fault you had. Give them a good clean with emery tape and grease the terminals when refitting.
 
Well.............


After fitting a new earth cable and a second one to be on the safe side, we've had no trouble starting a hot or cold engine. Until today that is.


After a 2 hour drive, pulled in for fuel and the bloody thing wouldn't start again. Again, disconnected the cables on the +ve terminal, reconnected and the engine fired up.


We have a load monitor fitted to the starter battery in question and this recorded an all time low voltage of 3.5v. So now we're thinking either duff battery (think it's the original at c.7 years old) or maybe a faulty starter motor drawing too much current on cranking.


Any more thoughts guys?
 
The same issue on the positive side (just clean the contacts as mentioned) Then consider cleaning the ring terminals round the wiring at the starter might be able to do this from underneath? Disolconnect the battery else you might get a nasty spark. Then change battery if no joy. Bet it is not the starter itself.
 
Really hope it's not the starter Andy as I've just looked at exchange prices - £250+. Firstly, I need to locate the starter motor, not easy on these 3.0 lumps and then yes, check and clean all the connections.


Many thanks for the pointers.
 
The battery will be coming out 2mrw and will probably be replaced as a precaution. However, the battery holds its charge very well and will maintain 12.7v over 2-3 weeks with no load or charger connected.
 
My 2yr old 3.0 180
Had hot start issues,
But different, it would turn over but give the sensation the engine was ripping itself from the mountings,
Start & stop was harsh, stopping was same hot or cold,

Purpose made heavy duty earth strap helped but the starting was still bad

New starter motor sorted it, even though it turned over well, although I thought sluggish at times hence I thought I'd throw new one on, now starts up hot and cold like new.

Although the middle mount bolt seized and snapped, it snapped off in the starter so unit came off fine, just need to pop new bolt in :)
 
Deefordog said:
The battery will be coming out 2mrw and will probably be replaced as a precaution. However, the battery holds its charge very well and will maintain 12.7v over 2-3 weeks with no load or charger connected.
Click to expand...

check battery voltage,
:idea: at terminal, AND AT CLAMP / CABLE when in "non-start mode";)

as it sounds more like a poor / lost connection, (n)


IF the battery was FLAT then removing the cable clamps won't help..,
BUT does seem to help your Van:confused:

TBH - modern batteries / and modern vehicle electronics can really confuse, the number of Panda's that throw a fit with an elderly battery is startling-

have seen this myself,
and at 7 years, it'll only be a mtter of time,

here's hoping for you.,
do let us know..,:)

Charlie
 
New battery bought (type 019, 95ah), nothing fancy, £80, so worth a punt hopefully. Will fit it later but won't be using the motorhome in earnest for another two weeks. Will keep you posted
smile.gif
.


Here's hoping it's not the starter motor
frown.gif
.
 
Deefordog said:
New battery bought (type 019, 95ah), nothing fancy, £80, so worth a punt hopefully. Will fit it later but won't be using the motorhome in earnest for another two weeks. Will keep you posted
smile.gif
.


Here's hoping it's not the starter motor
frown.gif
.
Click to expand...

Check the terminal connections on the starter motor they are prone to corrosion ,
 
Evs54 said:
Check the terminal connections on the starter motor they are prone to corrosion ,
Click to expand...

Have been underneath and had a look at the starter motor connections. The thin 12v cable connection looked a bit naff, so have cleaned that one up. The larger/thick red cable connection seems clean as it's under a plastic cover, so have left that one alone (not the easiest to get at either).

One question on "new" starter motors for sale on the internet and at local factors - have seen some for c.£60 (no exchange required) and others at £180 plus exchange. Is it a case of you get what you pay for or merely branding/badge = £'s ??

On the road again on Tuesday 9th June so will let you all know how the beast performs.
 
Really, try not to worry. Your new battery and cleaner connections to it should mean all is well. Just Re read the thread and your initial issues with other dead electrics all point to that conclusion.
 
So after about 40-50 hot and cold starts, everything's fine. Guess it's a combination of new battery and cleaner starter connections, who knows.


Checked the old battery a couple of weeks ago and after a full charge via a C-TEK charger, the battery's still holding 12.7v. Might put a load on it soon and see what happens. At least we might have a spare battery.


Anyway, all's well at the moment. Have another minor electrical problem - new thread started.
 
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