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Technical Stop start question

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Technical Stop start question

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Cyberface

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before you all scream at me i have looked and searched

my stop/start has never worked 12 plate lounge 10k (i was told a long journey would do it when i picked it up)

after having read up on the system and its issues i just assumed my battery wasnt good enough to get the SS to work.

well today after 4 months of ownership i stalled it reversing, and as i dippped the clutch it restarted!
tested this theory out, and if you stall on purpose the SS light comes on the dash and itll restart.

Soooooooo if it works then why wont it work during normal driving??
 
We never had an issue with our previous POP, but our TA which we bought last November, the S/S usually cuts in when the car comes to a stop at traffic lights but restarts itself after less than 20 seconds every single time. Last Sunday however, we came to a set of traffic lights, S/S kicked in and we sat there for almost 2 minutes and the engine stayed off until the clutch was dipped. For the first time we can remember since we bought the car, the aircon was switched off and the radio was off. Sure enough, when we put the aircon back on again and switched the radio on, the S/S reverted back to its usual less than 20 seconds engine off mode and kicked back in again. I know this was never an issue with the old POP, you could have everything and anything switched on and S/S would work just fine.

The car is approaching its first service on registration date and is obviously still under warranty, so I'll ask whichever dealer I eventually decide to go with for the service to check to make sure the battery is actually ok or whether there is some sort of software issue. Knowing our 'brand new' car was stood for almost a year at the dealer prior to sale though, I suspect it didn't do the battery any good and I doubt the battery was charged regularly during its time standing.
 
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Cyberface said:
tested this theory out, and if you stall on purpose the SS light comes on the dash and itll restart.

Soooooooo if it works then why wont it work during normal driving??
Click to expand...

Think of this as a fail safe. It needs to be 'happy' with the battery state to call a stop, but a restart is always automatic regardless (unless a door is open etc).
 
frupi said:
We never had an issue with our previous POP, but our TA which we bought last November, the S/S usually cuts in when the car comes to a stop at traffic lights but restarts itself after less than 20 seconds every single time. Last Sunday however, we came to a set of traffic lights, S/S kicked in and we sat there for almost 2 minutes and the engine stayed off until the clutch was dipped. For the first time we can remember since we bought the car, the aircon was switched off and the radio was off. Sure enough, when we put the aircon back on again and switched the radio on, the S/S reverted back to its usual less than 20 seconds engine off mode and kicked back in again. I know this was never an issue with the old POP, you could have everything and anything switched on and S/S would work just fine.

The car is approaching its first service on registration date and is obviously still under warranty, so I'll ask whichever dealer I eventually decide to go with for the service to check to make sure the battery is actually ok or whether there is some sort of software issue. Knowing our 'brand new' car was stood for almost a year at the dealer prior to sale though, I suspect it didn't do the battery any good and I doubt the battery was charged regularly during its time standing.
Click to expand...

This is similar behaviour to mine. Last week on my regular trip to work it operated but restarted after 5-10 seconds, this week, when it operates at all, it does so for only 1-2 seconds. Two weeks ago it didn't operate at all, in fact it's been completely unpredictable since I bought it. I believe my car was in storage for a period, perhaps months, also.

I will be very interested in the outcome (if any) of your enquiries so please post them.
 
Unless you drive a lot, you need to plug in a battery charger daily to keep the S/S system happy. That's what I ended up having to do.
 
UFI said:
Unless you drive a lot, you need to plug in a battery charger daily to keep the S/S system happy. That's what I ended up having to do.
Click to expand...

I thought I did drive a lot, especially since I started working again. Plugging the car into a charger every night would just be a right PITA, not to mention the fact the car is outside and often the one furthest from the garage.

If you don't mind; what type of charger is recommended and is it necessary to disconnect the battery? Opinions seem to difer on this point. I have a trickle charger which is designed to mount in the car next to the battery but there's not enough room in the Fiat. The downside is that you have to run a 240V extension into the engine bay with all the concomitant risk. I also have a different unit operating from a plugpack in the garage which constantly charges the 12V SLA gate battery and could perhaps be shared.
 
UFI said:
Unless you drive a lot, you need to plug in a battery charger daily to keep the S/S system happy. That's what I ended up having to do.
Click to expand...

The point is, you shouldn't need to do that. I drive a Peugeot van on a daily basis and the stop start on that is excellent. I can leave the van for several days (when I'm on works leave for instance), go out in it and it works exactly as it should do every single time.

I wouldn't mind, but I own a CTEK charger and I have used it on the TA battery twice and it made no difference overall to how the S/S behaves. Our TA is in use every day, does an 18 mile round trip to work on dual carriageway and gets used most evenings by the missus for other things.

Personally, I still think the battery has suffered irreversable damage being sat idle for the best part of 13 months at the dealership I bought the car from. Either that, or it is a software problem that needs attending to.
 
Piccolo Nero e Bella said:
.....If you don't mind; what type of charger is recommended and is it necessary to disconnect the battery? Opinions seem to difer on this point. I have a trickle charger which is designed to mount in the car next to the battery but there's not enough room in the Fiat. The downside is that you have to run a 240V extension into the engine bay with all the concomitant risk. I also have a different unit operating from a plugpack in the garage which constantly charges the 12V SLA gate battery and could perhaps be shared.
Click to expand...

I've got one of these: CTEK MXS 5.0T Battery Charger with Automatic Temperature Compensation: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

with one of these: CTEK 56-304 Comfort Connect Extension Cable, 2.5 m: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

and this: CTEK CTE-56382 Comfort Indicator with 8mm Eyelet Adaptors: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike
 
frupi said:
The point is, you shouldn't need to do that.
Click to expand...

You don't, provided that all the sensors are working and correctly adjusted, and the battery is of the correct specification & in good condition.

frupi said:
Personally, I still think the battery has suffered irreversable damage being sat idle for the best part of 13 months at the dealership I bought the car from.
Click to expand...

I'd agree that's the most likely cause.

IMO the first step to fixing this issue on any car that's either over 2yrs old or has been standing unused for a significant period is to replace the battery, irrespective of whether it tests OK on a high discharge tester. But they're not cheap; plan on spending close to three figures if you shop around & fit it yourself, or £250 or so if you get it done by a franchised dealer.

The car will need to go through a number of cycles after fitting a new battery & the system should then reset itself, so don't be surprised if it takes a day or two to come back into good order.
 
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As our TA is obviously still under warranty, when it goes in for its first service, I will explain the symptoms exactly as they have been, the fact the car was a year old when bought new, and I'll be pushing very, very strongly for a replacement battery under warranty. The situation as it stands is unacceptable, especially when I know very well how it should work.
 
frupi said:
The point is, you shouldn't need to do that. I drive a Peugeot van on a daily basis and the stop start on that is excellent. I can leave the van for several days (when I'm on works leave for instance), go out in it and it works exactly as it should do every single time.

I wouldn't mind, but I own a CTEK charger and I have used it on the TA battery twice and it made no difference overall to how the S/S behaves. Our TA is in use every day, does an 18 mile round trip to work on dual carriageway and gets used most evenings by the missus for other things.
Click to expand...

I've always found that once fully charged, my S/S has worked great. I think Fiat have calibrated the system far too conservatively. I guess the lesson is if you want a Fiat with working SS buy one that's a rebadged Peugeot.
 
Piccolo Nero e Bella said:
I thought I did drive a lot, especially since I started working again. Plugging the car into a charger every night would just be a right PITA, not to mention the fact the car is outside and often the one furthest from the garage.
Click to expand...

I have a 40W solar panel on my garage roof with an MPPT charge controller. It takes about 5Wh to go from engine off at 12.9v to float charge at 14.5v.

If I parked outside I'd go for a much smaller panel mounted on the car, the rear spoiler is a good spot. The 40W panel was originally purchased for a car that was eventually going to have it's alternator removed.

At any rate try charging with the charger you have to see if it helps, if not you might have another problem.
 
UFI said:
I have a 40W solar panel on my garage roof with an MPPT charge controller. It takes about 5Wh to go from engine off at 12.9v to float charge at 14.5v.

If I parked outside I'd go for a much smaller panel mounted on the car, the rear spoiler is a good spot. The 40W panel was originally purchased for a car that was eventually going to have it's alternator removed.

At any rate try charging with the charger you have to see if it helps, if not you might have another problem.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I'll also look at the solar panel the gate people installed. I removed it and replaced it with the aforesaid charger because it just wasn't charging the SLA and the arrangement was primitive to say the least, i.e. no solar controller, just a single blocking diode. The panel, however, is a good one, though I'm not sure of its output.

Whether all this works or not I'm going to follow Frupi's lead and take the car back in under warranty - the SS has never worked properly but it's a matter of convincing them to do something about it.
 
This is an interesting thread!

My TA has very intermittant S/S and after 2yrs of ownership I have never been able to work out when it will work! It is so random it is a joke!!

It is in the garage today having lots of other repairs done (new air cooler unit amongst other investigations) and I have asked them to look at the S/S too.
 
ErynsMum said:
This is an interesting thread!

My TA has very intermittant S/S and after 2yrs of ownership I have never been able to work out when it will work! It is so random it is a joke!!

It is in the garage today having lots of other repairs done (new air cooler unit amongst other investigations) and I have asked them to look at the S/S too.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we'll all be very interested in the outcome - I know I will!
 
Not air con Varesecrazy but an engine overheating issue.

They just called to say that the new unit had been fixed but could they keep it until tomorrow as the seats need to dry from the valet!!

Apparently the oil was ridiculously low again, it was only filled up 3wks ago and they can't find any sign of a leak so they think it has been 'burnt' whilst overheating! And ANOTHER issue I raised with them - if the oil was so low again (practically none left) then why for the 2nd time did the oil light NOT come on?!
I laughed out loud when the service manager reacted to that question with the comment "that is a very good question" - surely he should have been asking that question himself?! :bang:
 
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ErynsMum said:
! And ANOTHER issue I raised with them - if the oil was so low again (practically none left) then why for the 2nd time did the oil light NOT come on?!
Click to expand...

The oil light in every car I've seen is based on pressure and not level. As long as there's pressure, the light won't come on. If you'd gone around a corner really fast you might have noticed it flicker as the oil sloshes to one side and the oil pickup is 'starved'.

Also the dipstick typically registers only the top 1l of oil or so, so even if it only barely registers on the stick at all, you've actually still got quite a bit left. Some people routinely run their oil right on the MIN mark to aid warm up.

PS, my dealer service said they'd never had a S/S fault....:rolleyes:
 
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