Vitesse said:

I have bought some Cool It Thermo Tec Copper Impregnated Exhaust Insulating Wrap. I wanted it to try and stop the heat affecting the paint on the engine lid, as there is a tendency for the paint to craze around the air vent due to the heat. I am going to wrap it on the exhaust down pipes, it is meant to reduced engine bay heat by up to 70%. I doubt it will do that on a 500 with the exhaust box being just next to the engine but I am sure it will make a difference. Also as anyone who has worked on a 500 knows you always burn your hand when playing around with the distributor, so it should prevent that. Also it doesn't look as bad as some other tapes you can get for wrapping manifolds. PS The cable ties are only on there for measuring up purposes it will be held with some jubilee clips. The 500 parts site in Germany sell it but they wanted Euro 99,50 for it. I managed to source it in the UK for £25.

Anyone have any experience with it or similar products?

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Picking up on an old thread, as I'm about to do the same. Did this make a difference? Since my car's upgrade (and installation of an oil pressure gauge) I've had issues with the oil pressure dropping directly proportionately to the temperature.

The best guess so far is that, rather than the pressure dropping from an initial 4bar to just above 1bar (at running temperature of 75 degrees), the sensor is being affected by the temperatures in the engine bay, as my exhaust makes it impossible to fit a heat shield. Keen to know if you think this had a benefit, as it might just help to fix my issue.

Pete145 said:

Picking up on an old thread, as I'm about to do the same. Did this make a difference? Since my car's upgrade (and installation of an oil pressure gauge) I've had issues with the oil pressure dropping directly proportionately to the temperature.

The best guess so far is that, rather than the pressure dropping from an initial 4bar to just above 1bar (at running temperature of 75 degrees), the sensor is being affected by the temperatures in the engine bay, as my exhaust makes it impossible to fit a heat shield. Keen to know if you think this had a benefit, as it might just help to fix my issue.

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Hi Pete it's certainly keeps the initial heat down, as I said in a previous post it slowed down the opening of the thermostat flap by approximately 20 mins. Without having access to a thermal camera I couldn't prove it to be 100%.

In my mind the same heat is still produced and has to go somewhere it may not dissipate from the down pipes of the exhaust that are wrapped, so it is going to one of two places back to the cylinder head. But I think this is less likely as the thermostat flap timing sort of discounts this. I think more likely to pass through the pipes to the main part of the exhaust which is unwrapped and of course is sitting lower down in better cooler air flow.

One thing that isn't disputed is that it is going to cause some damage to the metal of the exhaust, as it cools it is going to produce moisture which will obviously be unable to escape so will rot the pipes over time. But that doesn't bother me because as a standard exhaust is very cheap to replace.

My wrap has darken over time so it is certainly doing something?

Tony

As somebody who has been very involved in the start up of 2 M/Benz dealerships and ran service receptions for the better part of 25 years, I can assure you, most exhaust corrosion is from the INSIDE. This is more noticeable on the cars that do lots of local runs--the exhaust never gets to a temperature where it completely dries out inside. The cars that were constantly driven on long trips had far less exhaust replacement, maybe by a factor of 2 or even 3---and we are talking about OE M/Benz parts. The most replaced part of the exhaust was the rear-box---the one that took the longest to warm up and dry out. I have left the exhaust on my 500 (sports exhaust, tuned 650 engine) UNWRAPPED and try never to do 'just round the corner' runs---I always try to organise a run so that the exhaust (and it is much easier with a 500/126 due to very short exhaust lengths) gets nice and hot and so dries out.

the hobbler said:

As somebody who has been very involved in the start up of 2 M/Benz dealerships and ran service receptions for the better part of 25 years, I can assure you, most exhaust corrosion is from the INSIDE. This is more noticeable on the cars that do lots of local runs--the exhaust never gets to a temperature where it completely dries out inside. The cars that were constantly driven on long trips had far less exhaust replacement, maybe by a factor of 2 or even 3---and we are talking about OE M/Benz parts. The most replaced part of the exhaust was the rear-box---the one that took the longest to warm up and dry out. I have left the exhaust on my 500 (sports exhaust, tuned 650 engine) UNWRAPPED and try never to do 'just round the corner' runs---I always try to organise a run so that the exhaust (and it is much easier with a 500/126 due to very short exhaust lengths) gets nice and hot and so dries out.

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Tom I assume you have misunderstood my post? I was talking about a wrapped exhaust corroding from the outside nothing to do with how unwrapped exhaust corrodes?

In my experience my 500 warms to operating temperature more quickly than my modern car. As it is clearly more practical for short journeys than any modern and ten times more fun, it always gets used for trips to the corner shop or the post office. I won't worry if this does accelerate the rate of deterioration of the exhaust a they're cheap and easy to fix. I don't think it will anyway.
In fact, I think the exhaust wrap may deteriorate before the exhaust and may have the dual effect of shortening the warm-up period of the engine as well as protecting it from overheating.

fiat500 said:

In my experience my 500 warms to operating temperature more quickly than my modern car. As it is clearly more practical for short journeys than any modern and ten times more fun, it always gets used for trips to the corner shop or the post office. I won't worry if this does accelerate the rate of deterioration of the exhaust a they're cheap and easy to fix. I don't think it will anyway.
In fact, I think the exhaust wrap may deteriorate before the exhaust and may have the dual effect of shortening the warm-up period of the engine as well as protecting it from overheating.

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I agree I think a post I made a while back you picked up on the fact that you could get a replacement exhaust for about £27 if I recall, so not really something to worry about when determining how far you are going to go for a drive.

I agree I think it will slow down warm up time but that's part of what it's designed to do. With the 123 ignition if I went and started mine now, it would start probably after 2 or 3 attempts, (it hasn't been started for a few months) choke down to about halfway straightaway and a bit of hand throttle for about 30 seconds or so, choke off it will be purring like a kitten ?. You will be surprised by the wrap, the particular make I have, one of their selling points is a video of it being blasted by a blow torch and it doesn't touch it.

Whoops!! yes, I think I may have slightly misunderstood and got a bit carried away! I do agree that a 'wrapped' exhaust runs the risk of corrosion between the wrap and the down-pipe. if you are running the engine with a standard exhaust, replacement cost is not really an issue, but if you have a 'sports exhaust', which might easily cost £200+, this is something you have to take into consideration. This is one of those subjects which we could discuss 'till the cows come home.

the hobbler said:

. This is one of those subjects which we could discuss 'till the cows come home.

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The cows are still in the top field so I'll carry on talking.
I'm having trouble with an aluminium shield on my modern car, which protects the plastic fuel tank from the exhaust heat. It came loose in an incident in the dark with a flooded bend on the road. So having looked at it I realise that aluminium which is not much thicker than a disposable roasting tray, is considered good enough to reflect away exhaust heat. A similar but thicker shroud envelopes the catalytic-converter which is the first part of the system on my car; here I presume that it is also being used to retain heat
So I think that the best way to reduce the heating effects of the exhaust system on the little Fiats would be to create an extension out of aluminium to the shield bolted to the shelf on the side of the engine bay. Or perhaps it could be remade in a more generous style completely out of aluminium. At the very least it could be painted silver on the underside to reflect heat away.
Personally I don't think it is necessary to tinker with the cooling system as it is already very clever design. I guess that he main reason why some cars get too hot is that they are burning too much petrol too quickly. The real solution would be an increased air flow from an uprated impeller or more complex cooling-fin arrangements, were that possible.
The air leaving the engine through the thermostat housing is directed over the exhaust and no matter how hot that air is, it will still have a cooling effect on the exhaust, the benefit of which might be lost with any method that covers the system.
There must be some powerful, hard-driven Fiats out there because my standard, well-thrashed little buddy gives me no problems with overheating and actually drives at its best when really hot.

What you could do to that heat shield is to stick some self adhesive heat shield to the bottom of it, on the exhaust side so it deflects the heat away.

I think that would give some benefit, how much I don't know but I sure it would help a bit.

I agree though most engines running better when they are hot, as that is what they are designed to do. One of my "moderns" is 11 years old and only done 24,000 miles but it drives like a different car after it has had a good thrashing up and down the motorway to clear itself out.

http://www.thermotec.com/products/13500-adhesive-backed-heat-barrier.html

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2907...3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D1147935704610

Wrapped mine in black.

My exhaust is coated in Zircotec a ceramic thermal coating....we will have to see if it performs

Vitesse said:

... it drives like a different car after it has had a good thrashing up and down the motorway to clear itself outhttp://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1147935704610

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A Mechanic friend of mine calls this the Italian Tune-up. He swears by it.

Chris

AndrewHarvey said:

My exhaust is coated in Zircotec a ceramic thermal coating....we will have to see if it performs

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Any feedback yet on how it performs?
Was thinking of doing the same.
Found this guys (Fast Fox Performance) while searching for ceramic coatings and/or exhaust wraps.
Seem to have good pricing.
From what I've read, ceramic coating is the ultimate goal, however, it comes at a cost. Someone sold it to me as an investment. With the exhaust wrapping, you'll have to re-do them often, while the ceramic coating stays on.
Decisions, decisions, decisions...

HA ! my build has stalled due to the inclement weather....It returned a month late from paint - and I knew that I wouldn't complete it before it became too cold to work on it.

Its waiting for doors to be hung, windscreen in, fuel tank in .......then start up checks....
My fancy Galassetti carbon fibre / stainless / zircotec exhaust sits on a shelf awaiting fitting..... Time is so valuable in my life that the 500 is low down on my "acceptable" commitments....

I wrapped the top of my exhaust a couple of weeks ago (the bottom was already wrapped) in an attempt to see if this would help my oil pressure gauge issues. Long and short of that issue is that my oil pressure gauge reads a perfect 4 bar when the car first starts, but the pressure steadily falls in a directly proportional relationship to temperature.

My 'feeling' is that the heat from the exhausts (and the engine bay) might be causing the sender to give a false reading as the engine heats up.

I think the wrapping has slowed down the false reading process a little, but it does still eventually drop to about 1 bar.

So, not fixed, but possibly improved a little.

Pete - where is the oil pressure sender mounted?

Pete,
Are you sure you do not have an engine issue? I would not think that the sending unit is your problem. They are not effected by heat.
More likely:
Worn camshaft bearing surface in engine case.
Worn oil pump and timing cover.
Worn main bearings.
Worn rod bearings.
Leaking crankshaft plugs.

John

jjacob said:

Pete,

Are you sure you do not have an engine issue? I would not think that the sending unit is your problem. They are not effected by heat.

More likely:

Worn camshaft bearing surface in engine case.

Worn oil pump and timing cover.

Worn main bearings.

Worn rod bearings.

Leaking crankshaft plugs.



John

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Hi John,

I really don't think so, as the engine was essentially rebuilt and upgraded to a very authentic 595ss spec by Middle Barton Garage at the same time the gauges were put in.

Most of what you have listed have either been fitted as brand new parts or parts that have been inspected and refurbished during the rebuild. MBG also had it back and gave the engine a thorough inspection and re-tune after about 250 miles of post rebuild motoring. This is what makes it such a riddle.

I don't know whether someone else has mentioned this but these cars
ran perfectly well in Italy with it's much much hotter climate.These
engines don't seem to suffer from the heat anyway so why worry.

phoenix1 said:

I don't know whether someone else has mentioned this but these cars
ran perfectly well in Italy with it's much much hotter climate.These
engines don't seem to suffer from the heat anyway so why worry.

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Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. Not sure how the guys in Australia get on, it's been over 40 degrees there recently!

In my case the sports exhaust that the Channel 5 team fitted to the car has 'V' shaped down pipes, so when they re-assemble the car the heat shield no longer fitted, so they just left it off!

Not totally un-heard of or un-common apparently, but I was advised pretty quickly to wrap to the lower sections of the pipes a couple of years ago to compensate, and now I've completed the job by taking it all the way to the top of the pipes.

As I mentioned previously, there was also a feeling that the "extra" heat (as a result of no heat shield) might be frying the senders!

But, you're right. Millions of these cars buzzed around the warmer climates of southern Europe, and were designed to do so perfectly well.

Maybe the modifications some have done (doubling horse power in some cases) and the patterns of modern day motoring that force us to sit idle in lines of traffic for longer periods may cause engines to heat up a little more than in the 50's and 60's??