Technical Here is a relay (for headlights, etc.)

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Technical Here is a relay (for headlights, etc.)

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I had a private message that asked me about relays, so thought I'd post here for the benefit of anyone who searches for it. ;)

The last time I fitted relays to headlights was years ago and I can't find the photos - except one (below) that shows the result - one of these headlights has the relay fitted, and the other uses the standard wiring.

I shall turn this thread into a guide - with pictures - when I next carry out this modification. In the meantime...

What is a relay?

A relay is an electrically-operated switch (the Italian term, Teleruttori, is a little more emotive, rather than the English that means a torch-passing race). There is a coil of wire inside the relay that forms an electromagnet. The switch contacts move (they are influenced by the magnetic field) when a current flows through the relay coil.

There are usually at least four terminals on a relay:
- two terminals (numbered 85 and 86) provide the power to the relay coil

- one terminal (30) has power connected to it. This is the moving contact.

- one terminal (87) is the other (stationary) contact. This becomes live when the relay turns 'on'.

- sometimes, there is another terminal, often numbered 87a. This may either become live at the same time as terminal 87, OR it may be live when the relay is off and become 'dead' when the relay turns on. This latter possibility is known as a 'changeover' or 'cutout' relay, useful for reversing the direction of a motor (e.g. electric windows https://www.fiatforum.com/uno-technical/81347-electric-windows.html?p=899346) or turning something off when something else goes on.)

The picture below shows a standard relay. Usually these are black but they can also be grey, green, red, blue, white, etc. The colour doesn't reliably indicate the type or function.

Sometimes, the relay is a taller or wider shape and has extra electronics inside to turn the relay on when there is a special signal on extra terminals, or after a certain length of time. Examples include fuel pump relays, central locking control relays, interior light delay relays, and others. You could say that the additional electronics make each of these 'relays' actually a 'relay plus control circuit', but people still think of them as relays (and get confused). Just think of them as 'control units' instead :) The rest of this article talks about only the standard relay.


Why use a relay?

The relay contacts can carry a large current - up to 30A for most relays, though you can get 60A relays now. The relay coil requires a relatively small current (0.1A or less) to turn 'on'. Therefore, the wires to the coil do not have to be especially thick, and the relay can be turned on either by a light-duty switch or by electronics (transistors).

Some electrical items on a car use relatively high currents. For example, a 60/55W headlight bulb (60W for high beam, 55W for dipped beam) draws a current of up to (60W / 12V) = 5A. There are, of course, two headlights. On the Uno, there is a seperate fuse and wire for each side, but both of these fuses get their power from the same switch. So, the headlight switch must conduct a current of 10A.

Ohm's Law states that the voltage drop is proportional to resistance multiplied by current. The more current there is, the more voltage drop that a certain resistance will create. V = I * R. Now imagine that the headlight switch (and its connections, all the way through the wires to the headlight plug) are slightly less than perfect. Yes, really! ;) A 0.2-ohm resistance would not be unfeasible. At 10A, that's a voltage drop of 2V.

That means, assuming that the battery and alternator are working at full strength (which, on the Uno, they're usually not), the 13.2V available becomes 11.2V at the headlight. See http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html for the same discussion. You can see that light output (in lumens) drops off at a staggering rate. To quote that page, "The Europeans take a slightly more realistic with their voltage ratings; they consider output at 13.2v to be "100%". The loss curve is the same, though. When operating voltage drops to 95 percent (12.54v), headlamp bulbs produce only 83 percent of their rated light output. When voltage drops to 90 percent (11.88v), bulb output is only 67 percent of what it should be. And when voltage drops to 85 percent (11.22v), bulb output is a paltry 53 percent of normal!".

In case you missed it, that means the average Uno headlights give about half the intended light output :p The standard switch (brass/copper contacts) and rather thin wiring is barely sufficient for the non-halogen 40/45W bulbs that were popular when the Uno was designed. Things get even worse if you think about fitting uprated (e.g. 90W) halogen bulbs.

A relay solves the voltage-drop problem because the resistance between the voltage supply and the headlight is reduced from 0.2 ohms to practically nothing. The existing headlight switch and wiring now only need to provide a small current to the relay coil. The relay turns 'on' and provides current through suitably-large wires straight from the battery/alternator.

So far, this has been about headlights - but the same situation applies to horns, heated rear windows, electric windows, and any other high-current devices fitted to a car. High power (P, in Watts) requires high current (A), or high voltage (V). P = VA. Fortunately, the Uno already comes with a relay for the heated rear window, and some models have a relay for the horns.

I talked about relays for electric windows in this post: https://www.fiatforum.com/uno-technical/81347-electric-windows.html?p=899346


How is a relay connected to the headlight wiring?

A typical relay, with mounting tag and socket base, is shown below.

On the Uno, the green/grey (one is high beam, one is low beam) wires need to be intercepted before they reach the headlight plug. Just cut the headlight plug off and solder or crimp connections to the wires. The concept is pretty simple - connect the relay coil (terminals 85 and 86) exactly where the headlight bulb used to be! The existing earth (black wire) will be sufficient for this. It doesn't matter which way around the relay coil is. But you will need two relays - one for high, one for low.

If you want to be really thorough, you would put another two relays onto the other side headlight wiring. But this is not really necessary. The only advantage is that if a relay fails or a wire falls off, you would lose only one light. I guess that's quite a big advantage!

So, you have a relay that clicks 'on' when the headlight switch goes on - great. Now you need a high-current supply to the relay. Use a 10-gauge wire to provide 12V to terminal 30 of the relay. It would be a good idea to have an in-line fuse, say 30A, as well.

There is an easy way to get suitable wire (red and black), fuse holder, fuse, and terminals - just buy an Amplifier Installation Kit from a car audio/car accessories shop (y)

The fuse needs to be as close to the power source as possible so that any short in the wiring (e.g. chafing on metal) blows the fuse. One power source on most Uno models is a small black or white plastic box near the left suspension turret - it has ring terminals for the wires that connect to the battery. I like to use the starter terminal on models that have the starter at the front of the engine (e.g. 1116cc/1301cc/1372cc/Turbo). Use proper ring terminals and solder them if you are in doubt about the crimping.

So now the relay has a +12V (hopefully even +13.2V!) supply. When the relay turns on, terminal 87 gets 12V/13.2V. You need a wire from relay terminal 87 to the headlight bulb. This will be connected to the headlamp plug that you cut off previously. The terminals that had the green or grey wires are the positive supplies for dip/main beam. The wiring should be nice and thick - 10 or 12 gauge.

Don't forget the earth! The electrical earth or ground, that is. The black wire of the headlamp plug needs to be upgraded to a wire just as thick as for the positive supply. The other end of the wire needs a ring terminal bolted to the metalwork, such as at the earthing point near the battery tray.

Repeat for the high beam and either extend the wires across to the other side headlight, or install relays there and extend the power supply across. Use heatshrink tubing to cover soldered joints, tuck the wires into the corrugated tubing that runs across the front crossmember.

That's it!

Any side-effects?

Uno models made since 1986/1987, and possibly right up to the end of production, have a feature known as 'dim-dip'. This was only required in the UK at that time and is not required today. Dim-dip works by having a resistor (looks like a spring in an open tin box) attached to the sidelight circuit so that with the sidelights (first click of the headlight switch) on, the headlight dipped beams get a reduced voltage (created by the deliberate resistance). What a waste of time. Why would you want dim headlights with the rest of the energy turning into heat in a resistor? :rolleyes:

The side effect of having relays, though, is that now the relays will turn on instead of the dimmed headlights - and the headlights will be full-brightness even with the switch in the sidelights position. (Note that the park lights, which are on when the ignition key is turned backwards, are not affected).

The potential confusion is that the main/dip switch will have no effect for the sidelights position (or, on the Mk2, the headlight main/dip lever will not move when rotated to 'sidelights').

The simple solution to the problem is to unplug the dim-dip resistor - and remove it! Then, the sidelights position of the switch will turn on just the sidelights (park lights). Problem solved (y)


More reading

For a little more reading about similar situations with Italian car lighting, and a mention of the 'Duplo' bulbs (non-Halogen) that base-model Unos have, see
http://www.viva-lancia.com/fulvia/qanda/electrical/headlights.php


-Alex
 

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Yes alex!!

Top marks there :)

I did this when I hooked in my fog lights on the 1.0 IE start... but I always assumed they were supposed to be as bright as main beam :eek: (y).

I recon Your Uno (above) has on of them big round bulb lamps and a HID on the other side.
 
I recon Your Uno (above) has on of them big round bulb lamps and a HID on the other side.

No it didn't, I'm proud to say :) For standard reflectors, don't touch that HID junk ;)

For the photo there were 60/55W halogen both sides, but the dim side had some serious wiring/fusebox problems that dropped the voltage to 9.5V at the bulb. I could have probably improved it by cleaning connections but decided to fit relays instead. The bright side had a relay fitted and thus 12.3V (14V with the engine running). I had to play with the camera exposure a little (i.e. turn the exposure down) so that the camera could sense the difference in brightness. In real life, it was obvious, but to a camera, everything tends to look 'bright'.

I remember driving that car at night once both lights were done and (sorry Jai) the difference was night and day. The grass was green (on the other side of the fence) and you could see every stone in the road. It was incredible - roadsigns were visible over a kilometre away and blindingly-bright at close range. The irony was that the lights far outstripped the 58bhp-performance :eek:

A few years back, I was approaching a roundabout at night - and seeing a car coming, I thought "man, those lights are as dim as standard Uno lights" - by the time I'd finished thinking that, it drove past, and it WAS an Uno - which was kinda funny. I reckon they must be some of the dimmest lights on the road - doesn't help that many of them still have those silly "big round bulb" things!

The funny thing is, the situation all changes when you put a decent light source in - because the reflector area is LARGE, the Mk1 lights give great illumination. My 166 with its low-set projector lamps was dismal - they cast shadows in the road!

I hope to be doing this again next week, all being well, with the Uno 45 that's in the garage at the moment. Logically I should do it to my Turbo, since that goes faster :rolleyes:

-Alex
 
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alex was over in the uk these past 2 weeks, working his cotton socks off in the freezing cold to pay the bills....however he found the time towards the end of the trip to pop up for a day and a bit, and after a few shakes of the head over the condition of tippex, got stuck into creating the relay system for the headlights.....mcguyver/a-team style:slayer:

from the shed cache of cack, relays were pulled and matched, old wiring plundered, connectors found, and with no little ingenuity, a pretty damned neat and highly effective install added. and it has to be said, it makes a world of difference. was tested almost immediately on a drive to the ace, the dipped beam is stronger, better defined, and whiter. i can actually see now at night:D. cost? pennies. worth...priceless:)

while he was in there, the perfectionist that alex is, had a fiddle (ooooh errrr mrs) under the bonnet and dash, and lordy lordy, i now have a neat and tidy fuse/relay panel, and assorted sensors and wiring under the bonnet work, as do the warning/status lights in the dash:slayer:

alex, you are the bomb(y) cheers fella, is very instructive seeing you work,

so....how's this for a thought, petition alexs company to get him sent to the uk for a decent length of time, and in downtime, open "alexs house of uno improvement", a sort of clinic to refresh and rejuvenate the parts that need tweaking:D

btw: how much does it cost to ship a 40ft container to NZ:p
 
just in addition you might want to look at this showing how to wire a relay in (it was drawn to show the wiring of front fog lights in a Grande punto but instead of the switch and side light feed put the blue wire ( pin 86) to the headlamps original + feed......
(y)

Diagram_for_foglamps_JPG.jpg
 
Andy - thanks for the diagram; another good example of how a relay makes a difference.

Jai - thanks!
I'd just like to point out that Jai put me up for the night in a very-comfortable, plenty-large-enough spare bed, AND took me to the Ace Cafe - so really a few hours in the cold was the least I could do :)

I also scored some electric window switches - which are almost PRICELESS to me :yum:

The organised collection of parts we had in Jai's shed was brilliant. So many spare (and matching) relays, wiring of all thicknesses, and all Uno parts that you can imagine. I think Jai needs a soldering iron and a proper crimper/high quality terminals, but by not buying those, we saved some money for the next job on 'Tippex' :)

However there was one electrical glitch I couldn't solve, so I've created a separate thread for that (y)

-Alex
 
I have done mine on Friday and OOooh my word!!! I can see clearly now,,, bluddy hell,, now I see the full potential of the 100W globes.

Thnx for this,, now it is my windows that needs to be sorted out.
 
Hello, Ive just undertaken and completed the job of fitting and wiring relays into my headlights, I am just wondering if anyone who has done this experienced the same problem as me.

Is the relay job meant to make it so that you have high beam on all of the time, because when i use full beam after completing the job it knocks the relay off and just the sidelights are on and i have to turn the lights all the way off and then back on. Have i done something wrong? Or is this the consequence of fitting the relays?

Thanks
Dan
 
Hi essex..

I havent done this yet, nor read the post but check this:

Have you ONLY given the headlights a feed from the new relay you fitted?
It sounds as though you have fitted a new relay and only given the headlights a power feed from this?

In which case it sounds as though all you need to do is give the headlights a feed for the mainbeam (no idea which wire that is),

This will then allow you to bi-pass the relay for main beam..

Enless of course you want to fit a 2nd relay for main beams (although i suspect that maybe there already is one??)

Hope this helps a tiny bit?
Paul
 
Uno models made since 1986/1987, and possibly right up to the end of production, have a feature known as 'dim-dip'. This was only required in the UK at that time and is not required today. Dim-dip works by having a resistor (looks like a spring in an open tin box) attached to the sidelight circuit so that with the sidelights (first click of the headlight switch) on, the headlight dipped beams get a reduced voltage (created by the deliberate resistance). What a waste of time. Why would you want dim headlights with the rest of the energy turning into heat in a resistor? :rolleyes:

The side effect of having relays, though, is that now the relays will turn on instead of the dimmed headlights - and the headlights will be full-brightness even with the switch in the sidelights position. (Note that the park lights, which are on when the ignition key is turned backwards, are not affected).

The potential confusion is that the main/dip switch will have no effect for the sidelights position (or, on the Mk2, the headlight main/dip lever will not move when rotated to 'sidelights').

The simple solution to the problem is to unplug the dim-dip resistor - and remove it! Then, the sidelights position of the switch will turn on just the sidelights (park lights). Problem solved (y)
 
Thanks for the quick reply :D

If i take the dim dip resistor out then the first click it i just the sidelights and second click it is fullbeam, BUT the problem is that when i have the dim dip resistor out i can not flash when the lights are off (To say thanks to other drivers etc..) AND another problem is that when i am on the second click (Fullbeam) then if i pull back for highbeam the relays flick off and only the sidelights are left on and i need to go to position 0 and then back to position 2 for the lights to be on again, this is will be very dangerious driving at night.

i'll explain what i've done for one headlight.

I have put the wires green and grey from lighting loom on the relay and it clicks, i then fitted a power supply on 30 and and connected the only relay connector to the green and gray wires (connected to the plug).

The headlight plug has three wires coming from it, black(earth) and green and grey. I have 2 relays, both connected woth the same power and earth and each relay has the respective headlights green and grey wires connected to turn it on.

Am i right in thinking that i should have connected both green wires from each headlight to one relay and then both grey wires to the other relay?

Cheers
Dan
 
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I have put the wires green and grey from lighting loom on the relay and it clicks, i then fitted a power supply on 30 and and connected the only relay connector to the green and gray wires (connected to the plug).

The headlight plug has three wires coming from it, black(earth) and green and grey. I have 2 relays, both connected woth the same power and earth and each relay has the respective headlights green and grey wires connected to turn it on.

Am i right in thinking that i should have connected both green wires from each headlight to one relay and then both grey wires to the other relay?

The problem is that you're using the wrong wires to turn on the relay coils - from the first sentence I think you're trying to use both the dipped beam and high beam wires at the same time... You need the grey wire AND earth for one relay, the green wire AND earth for the other relay. Think of the relay coil as replacing the headlight bulb filament. The relay contacts then provide the power to the headlight bulb. (Note to Paul: there isn't a high-beam relay on the Uno, the standard system absolutely sucks ;)).

To do this job properly requires four relays - that way, you have one relay connected to the grey wire and one for the green wire, each side. You could do it with two relays connected to grey and green wires on only one side, if you don't mind the idea of both headlights being powered by a single relay (if that relay fails, you could lose both lights at once).

Paul's advice about disconnecting the dim-dip resistor is spot-on. (EDIT: I think you know WHY I'd say that :D) Then the sidelights position on the headlight switch will actually activate the sidelights only, which is surely what FIAT intended. Dim-dip is a total waste of time; for daylight running in gloomy conditions, you should have your dipped beams on, and at night, you should have your dipped beams on...

-Alex
 
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I did initially put one wire and earth on but it didn't click, i will try again today, and hopefully i wasn't thinking when i done this and forgot to turn the power on before i connected the wires or something lol.

Thanks again
Dan
 
Thanks AlexGS :D i bought another two relays and wired it up all properly, My lights are working perfectly and i am very happy with the job, if i want my lights to be brighter then can i use 100W bulbs or is that illegal?

Cheers
Dan
 
Thanks AlexGS :D i bought another two relays and wired it up all properly, My lights are working perfectly and i am very happy with the job, if i want my lights to be brighter then can i use 100W bulbs or is that illegal?

Good stuff (y)

100W bulbs are technically not allowed, but you could probably risk it, especially if you're driving mainly on country roads and remember to dip the headlights at the appropriate times.

-Alex
 
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Alex i stole your original comment on the above part of this thread i was trying to quote but was in a rush!
Im shocked that main beam hasnt even got a relay as standard!!! Madness!

Brilliant idea for a simple fix, i've bought 4 relays and 4 relay holders, so will try and do it as neat as i can!

Although my bulbs currently get around the 10volt mark, it wont hurt to try this, especially as the new thicker gauge of wire will help aswell!
 
Alex i stole your original comment on the above part of this thread i was trying to quote but was in a rush!

Yeah, I noticed ;) But that's fine... I think it bore repeating!

Although my bulbs currently get around the 10volt mark, it wont hurt to try this, especially as the new thicker gauge of wire will help aswell!

10V is a huge drop in lighting intensity - you'll be surprised.

-Alex
 
You learn something everyday - so they say - well apart from getting my rear fogs going I did the voltage drop test like Alex mentioned earlier, multimeter probes on the hi beam lead and positive of the battery. You know the result. 2.5v drop, so yes the relays are the next trick. Then new bulbs, maybe 100/90s. If I do that perhaps I will only put relays on high and leave low alone as 90 is pretty high for dip, but they do work well. But on 2nd thoughts the higher amperage may not be any good for the switch and fuses. For low beam maybe a dim resister would do the trick!!
 
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