Technical Why does the Dualogic sometimes creep in traffic?

[306maxi]

It's not an Auto, it's a "Robotised manual" with all the traits of a manual gearbox- clutch and H-pattern gearbox components, all operated by hydraulics which provide a semi-auto action.

The 500 Dualogic Owner's guide even states the handbrake should be used where necessary on steeper gradients. Many people complain that the Hill Holder 2 sec delay is too long already, so extending it would cause Fiat Technical/Bosch more grief.

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But my of wanting the car to operate is the right way! Damn what the manufacturer has designed it to do for generally good reasons!

 

[keiron99]

The 500 Dualogic Owner's guide even states the handbrake should be used where necessary on steeper gradients.

I think the confusion arises because of the Start Stop system, which some cars have and some don't, and means that the hillhold works inconsistently.

In reality, if you have SS, and you do not disable it when you set off on your journey, you have operate on the basis that you do not have hillhold because you may end up rolling back into something.

Many people complain that the Hill Holder 2 sec delay is too long already, so extending it would cause Fiat Technical/Bosch more grief.

I'm trying to think of an instance where having a long delay would be an inconvenience?

 

[306maxi]

Does your car not have a brake pedal?

 

[306maxi]

Or a handbrake?

 

[keiron99]

Or a handbrake?

Sorry, I'm not understanding your last few posts?

 

[306maxi]

Your car won't roll back if you press the brake pedal.

 

[keiron99]

Your car won't roll back if you press the brake pedal.

Your sarcasm is not welcome.

 

[306maxi]

My sarcasm didn't ask for an invitation.

 

[RobinPJ]

Personally I think that the advantages of the Dualogic box (no loss of power, and no reduction in fuel economy) far far outweigh its disadvantages (no creep, it rolls back on a hill and it is sometimes not quite as smooth) when compared with a traditional slushmatic.

 

[keiron99]

Personally I think that the advantages of the Dualogic box (no loss of power, and no reduction in fuel economy) far far outweigh its disadvantages (no creep, it rolls back on a hill and it is sometimes not quite as smooth) when compared with a traditional slushmatic.

On balance I think you are right (although my wife, whose car it is, would probably beg to differ!)

The only observation I was trying to share - which I thought other prospective owners might find useful but which the other poster here used as a lame opportunity to take the **** out of a new member - was that there is a "conflict" between dualogic's hillhold and Start Stop features, which is not referenced in the owner's manual (as fas as I can see) and could be dangerous if a new owner was not aware of this fact.

 

[306maxi]

If someone can't work out how to stop a car with only two pedals from rolling back then they should be shot IN FRONT OF THEIR FAMILY.

 

[ahmett]

On balance I think you are right (although my wife, whose car it is, would probably beg to differ!)

The only observation I was trying to share - which I thought other prospective owners might find useful but which the other poster here used as a lame opportunity to take the **** out of a new member - was that there is a "conflict" between dualogic's hillhold and Start Stop features, which is not referenced in the owner's manual (as fas as I can see) and could be dangerous if a new owner was not aware of this fact.

I can see your point! I don't have startstop so cant help you there but for the use of hillholder and dualogic I make sure my foot is firmly on the brake pedal before setting off. I feel that if I tap the brake pedal lightly or not long enough hill holder does not activate.
Hope this helps.

 

[keiron99]

If someone can't work out how to stop a car with only two pedals from rolling back then they should be shot IN FRONT OF THEIR FAMILY.

Is this comment made toward me? Who said they were unable to stop their car rolling back? Why don't you **** off?

 

[RobinPJ]

We picked up our second Dualogic 500 yesterday (new thread to follow). Our first did not have S/S but this one does. Neither have had the hill holder. My wife is a very nervous driver and said she would disable S/S all the time, especially for going up Holywell Hill in St Albans which is pretty steep.

However, 5 minutes in the car yesterday, demonstrating to her how quickly it restarts and how if she uses the handbrake as usual it will be ready to go well before she is, was enough to give her confidence that she can in effect just forget about the S/S system.

 

[keiron99]

We picked up our second Dualogic 500 yesterday (new thread to follow). Our first did not have S/S but this one does. Neither have had the hill holder. My wife is a very nervous driver and said she would disable S/S all the time, especially for going up Holywell Hill in St Albans which is pretty steep.

Sounds like you had a similar weekend to me - driving round and round the block! My wife, despite driving for 30 years, is very nervous and only been used to a full auto for 15 years.

She is going to disable the SS each time she starts the car, and using the hillhold will mean it's not too dissimilar to a full auto.

If we didn't have the hillhold, then I wouldn't hesitate to leave SS on all the time. It's a bit odd though, if you've not had a car with it before...that shiver feeling of someone "walking over your grave" as it springs back into life!

 

[44sunsets]

Let's keep it civil here, folks.

I'm assuming the reason that hill-hold doesn't work when S&S is active is because the hill-hold braking is power assisted, and it would drain the battery too fast with the engine turned off?

I have to say that I find the hill-hold feature very inconsistent, I'm never quite sure when it will kick in or not (I always leave S&S disabled as I find the startup delay very annoying).

I haven't tried pressing extra hard on the brake pedal yet, will need to do so next time. Also, is there some kind of incline sensor that determines at what % gradient the hill-hold kicks in?

 

[306maxi]

I don't quite get why people are getting so worked up about this, this is little different to how a conventional torque converter automatic would work. In neutral at the lights facing uphill (you shouldn't leave it in drive and hold it on the brakes for any longer than a second or two) you'd have to have the brakes on to stop yourself from rolling back.

I was never a great fan of hillstarts myself, I did my lessons in a manual and my test in a manual, but for the first 6 years of my driving life, I'd driven automatics and I'll be honest, when I moved to the UK and had to start driving on some quite steep and narrow roads (compared to what now seem like runways fit for a 747 back in Australia) it was a little bit of a worry. The act of using three pedals and the handbrake in such a short amount of time takes a lot of co-ordination and if you've not done it, then it's hard. For these reasons I understand why people go for automatics, I really do.... Hell, if I could have got the hill holder without speccing ESP then I would have.

But getting back to the dualogic. Here we've eliminated the clutch pedal from the equation and in simple terms you have a stop and a go pedal and because there's no clutch, there's no need to use the handbrake as you would have to do in a manual. It really is as simple as that. Stopped on a hill? Press the brake pedal to hold yourself, pop it into first whilst holding the brake pedal and gently accelerate away and release the brake pedal.

Not to be rude, but if you can't manage that low level of co-ordination then you have to question whether someone should be driving. That's easy, there are far harder things you'll have to do, today the traffic stopped on the dual carriageway and I had to manage to brake hard enough to not crash into a co-worker in his BNW 500 lounge whilst not braking so hard that the numbnut in a BMW 325d with Raybans on doing well over the speed limit would go into the back of me.

S&S, dualogic and the hillholder are three things which unfortunately conflict somewhat, tbh Fiat should not have included the hill holder on the dualogic S&S models and this issue simply would not be one that people could complain about. It's kind of like selling a chocolate fireguard, it's never going to successfully be a fireguard and be chocolate at the same time.......

P.S Kieron, if you want to dislike this post then feel free to, it does absolutely nothing unless 4 other small minded people join you, in which case this post will be hidden

 

[ahmett]

I don't quite get why people are getting so worked up about this, this is little different to how a conventional torque converter automatic would work. In neutral at the lights facing uphill (you shouldn't leave it in drive and hold it on the brakes for any longer than a second or two) you'd have to have the brakes on to stop yourself from rolling back.

I was never a great fan of hillstarts myself, I did my lessons in a manual and my test in a manual, but for the first 6 years of my driving life, I'd driven automatics and I'll be honest, when I moved to the UK and had to start driving on some quite steep and narrow roads (compared to what now seem like runways fit for a 747 back in Australia) it was a little bit of a worry. The act of using three pedals and the handbrake in such a short amount of time takes a lot of co-ordination and if you've not done it, then it's hard. For these reasons I understand why people go for automatics, I really do.... Hell, if I could have got the hill holder without speccing ESP then I would have.

But getting back to the dualogic. Here we've eliminated the clutch pedal from the equation and in simple terms you have a stop and a go pedal and because there's no clutch, there's no need to use the handbrake as you would have to do in a manual. It really is as simple as that. Stopped on a hill? Press the brake pedal to hold yourself, pop it into first whilst holding the brake pedal and gently accelerate away and release the brake pedal.

Not to be rude, but if you can't manage that low level of co-ordination then you have to question whether someone should be driving. That's easy, there are far harder things you'll have to do, today the traffic stopped on the dual carriageway and I had to manage to brake hard enough to not crash into a co-worker in his BNW 500 lounge whilst not braking so hard that the numbnut in a BMW 325d with Raybans on doing well over the speed limit would go into the back of me.

S&S, dualogic and the hillholder are three things which unfortunately conflict somewhat, tbh Fiat should not have included the hill holder on the dualogic S&S models and this issue simply would not be one that people could complain about. It's kind of like selling a chocolate fireguard, it's never going to successfully be a fireguard and be chocolate at the same time.......

P.S Kieron, if you want to dislike this post then feel free to, it does absolutely nothing unless 4 other small minded people join you, in which case this post will be hidden

Maxi you are a bit too harsh. When i park my dualogic on a hill even with hill holder i dont rely on it so i use my left foot on the brake and the right foot on the accelerator and coordinate accordingly.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Maxi you are a bit too harsh. When i park my dualogic on a hill even with hill holder i dont rely on it so i use my left foot on the brake and the right foot on the accelerator and coordinate accordingly.

Why :bang:

Its not how its supposed to be driven. either move your right foot from one pedal to the other quickly and drive away (or boot it in your case Ahmett ) or use the handbrake.

You should NEVER be pressing on the accelerator and the brakes at the same time in a dualogic, the car wouldn't know WTF you're doing really, receiving both go and stop signals simultaneously to the ECU.

 

[ahmett]

Why :bang:

Its not how its supposed to be driven. either move your right foot from one pedal to the other quickly and drive away (or boot it in your case Ahmett ) or use the handbrake.

You should NEVER be pressing on the accelerator and the brakes at the same time in a dualogic, the car wouldn't know WTF you're doing really, receiving both go and stop signals simultaneously to the ECU.

There is no time when parralel parking on a steep hill. If you do that you'll smash into the car in front!