General Whats next .......Leaking Drive Shaft Oil Seal !

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Like koalar, I've nearly always used a large socket. In the garage workshop we had a dedicated installation kit but often it was quicker to just use a socket. If the seal isn't in a recessed housing I've even done it with a small hammer but the risk of distorting the seal is high. One of the biggest things is to keep it going in absolutely "square on" to the hole which is much easier to do with a socket.

Take it "easy" and tap it in just a wee bit with each stroke of the hammer and, as koalar mentions above, as soon as you notice it's not absolutely square with the hole then tap it more on the side which is standing proud.

Just a thought for the future - are you developing a "relationship" with your local factor? Ours has a selection of timing and specialist tools which are for hire to "the trade" If you regularly buy stuff from them you may find they will be amenable to letting you hire these tools, mine does once you become a "weel kent face"

 

[Baglady1990]

You done the hard part


smear some grease on the inside of the differential housing first


I did mine with the gearbox out and used a large socket to drive it home. The three seals I changed were all fairly simple once started.

there is a bit of a knack. If one side goes in first you have to apply slight more force to the opposite side


If you dont have anything the correct size. Draw round the seal on some mdf and cut out the circle with a jigsaw would work

Well …. I’ve just finished been working on it all day! It’s been emotional
Just got it all back together filled up the gear oil and took the car for a very brief test drive
I have a bit of a grinding noise when I speed up! Not at all sure what or why but I’m worn out now
I’m wondering if the gear oil needed more time to circulate? Or if I’ve knocked my passenger calliper? Not a clue
I did notice some “noise” when my clutch wasn’t engaged but as soon as I depressed it went away! Not as bad as last year when my bearing wore out but still a noise
Anyway I’m done for today I’m tired!
Ps I had to go to b&q and buy pipe that was the same as the outer diameter of the seal

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If all was Ok noisewise before you started I can't see that anything you've been doing could cause a problem inside the 'box (as long as a bit of the snap ring hasn't broken off when being removed and dropped into the box - which is most unlikely. Much more likely to be something to do with the brake or hub etc.

Anyway, fault finding when you're tired and worn out is so demoralizing. When you're rested and fresh you'll probably find it easily.

 

[Baglady1990]

If all was Ok noisewise before you started I can't see that anything you've been doing could cause a problem inside the 'box (as long as a bit of the snap ring hasn't broken off when being removed and dropped into the box - which is most unlikely. Much more likely to be something to do with the brake or hub etc.

Anyway, fault finding when you're tired and worn out is so demoralizing. When you're rested and fresh you'll probably find it easily.

Let’s hope so jock! The ring seemed fine and sturdy I’m 2nd guessing everything I’ve done….
Now I’m wondering if the drive shaft is in correctly .. like all the way in!?! It looks good from the outer
Like you say when your tired STOP I’ll have to get back on it tomorrow

 

[Baglady1990]

Like koalar, I've nearly always used a large socket. In the garage workshop we had a dedicated installation kit but often it was quicker to just use a socket. If the seal isn't in a recessed housing I've even done it with a small hammer but the risk of distorting the seal is high. One of the biggest things is to keep it going in absolutely "square on" to the hole which is much easier to do with a socket.

Take it "easy" and tap it in just a wee bit with each stroke of the hammer and, as koalar mentions above, as soon as you notice it's not absolutely square with the hole then tap it more on the side which is standing proud.

Just a thought for the future - are you developing a "relationship" with your local factor? Ours has a selection of timing and specialist tools which are for hire to "the trade" If you regularly buy stuff from them you may find they will be amenable to letting you hire these tools, mine does once you become a "weel kent face"

As it happens I am I think I’ll have a word with the chap next time I go in!
Yes I accidentally tore my first seal today trying to tap with a hammer! Good job I bought 2!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Now I’m wondering if the drive shaft is in correctly .. like all the way in!?!

In my experience they are either "in or they're "not". They can look as if they are "in" when they're not, but if you look very closely you'll see a thin bright polished ring around where the seal rubs on the inner joint, if it's fully home you won't see this "witness" mark. More to the point though, if the snap ring has not engaged you'll find a firm pull by hand on the inner joint will usually pull it out whereas if the ring has snapped in properly there's no way you're going to pull it out by hand.

Good luck with looking for that noise.
regards
Jock

 

[Baglady1990]

In my experience they are either "in or they're "not". They can look as if they are "in" when they're not, but if you look very closely you'll see a thin bright polished ring around where the seal rubs on the inner joint, if it's fully home you won't see this "witness" mark. More to the point though, if the snap ring has not engaged you'll find a firm pull by hand on the inner joint will usually pull it out whereas if the ring has snapped in properly there's no way you're going to pull it out by hand.

Good luck with looking for that noise.
regards
Jock

Well…. I can’t seem to pull it out so I’m hoping it’s in the right place I’ve added a pic does this look right jock? I’m wondering if the seal went in deep enough it’s definitely flush to gearbox but is it supposed to be in a bit more?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well…. I can’t seem to pull it out so I’m hoping it’s in the right place I’ve added a pic does this look right jock? I’m wondering if the seal went in deep enough it’s definitely flush to gearbox but is it supposed to be in a bit more?

Looks fine from what I can see Chris. Generally speaking if it's at least flush with the casing it's going to be OK. In most applications the housing it sits in will limit how deeply you can drive it in either because it's "stepped" or because, as I think is the case here, the main casing of the gearbox will stop it being driven in any deeper. You can usually tell as you're driving it in because it will be going in, going in and going in with every hit until suddenly it stops because it's "hit" the bottom of it's hole.

 

[Baglady1990]

Looks fine from what I can see Chris. Generally speaking if it's at least flush with the casing it's going to be OK. In most applications the housing it sits in will limit how deeply you can drive it in either because it's "stepped" or because, as I think is the case here, the main casing of the gearbox will stop it being driven in any deeper. You can usually tell as you're driving it in because it will be going in, going in and going in with every hit until suddenly it stops because it's "hit" the bottom of it's hole.

Well…. Today had suspension parts away from hub calliper looks ok tried to pull on drive shaft but that isn’t budging!!! Put it all back together went for a drive & no noise today not a peep!!
Just going to keep checking for any leaks but nothing overnight… could it be … I’ve actually done it!

 

[Baglady1990]

Well…. Today had suspension parts away from hub calliper looks ok tried to pull on drive shaft but that isn’t budging!!! Put it all back together went for a drive & no noise today not a peep!!
Just going to keep checking for any leaks but nothing overnight… could it be … I’ve actually done it!

What is the big nut called that you unscrew from the axl to release the hub? I know they are meant to be changed & mine has broken it’s just the prongs that lock it to the axl grooves have broken off
I can’t for the life of me find them!!! You would think it would be a simple thing to find!

 

[Baglady1990]

What is the big nut called that you unscrew from the axl to release the hub? I know they are meant to be changed & mine has broken it’s just the prongs that lock it to the axl grooves have broken off
I can’t for the life of me find them!!! You would think it would be a simple thing to find!

Is this it?

 

[portland_bill]

Is this it?

That looks like it. My usual source would be Carparts4less, https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=1213

Because the bit you ding into the groove is weakened, they should not be reused, although sometimes swapping them right to left can work, unless sod's law dictates the used part aligns with the groove. As long as they've been torqued up correctly, they rarely undo, so will be fine for a few days until the new one arrives.

When you ding the rim into the groove, do it so that the bent piece is preventing it from undoing, like a barb, if that makes sense.

When I have to do anything with the rear brakes, I find removing the hub makes brake shoe access much easier, so always try to keep a pair of rear ones in stock. https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=18768

 

[Baglady1990]

That looks like it. My usual source would be Carparts4less, https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=1213

Because the bit you ding into the groove is weakened, they should not be reused, although sometimes swapping them right to left can work, unless sod's law dictates the used part aligns with the groove. As long as they've been torqued up correctly, they rarely undo, so will be fine for a few days until the new one arrives.

When you ding the rim into the groove, do it so that the bent piece is preventing it from undoing, like a barb, if that makes sense.

When I have to do anything with the rear brakes, I find removing the hub makes brake shoe access much easier, so always try to keep a pair of rear ones in stock. https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=18768

I always forget car parts for less!!!! I’ve used them before too thanks for the info I’ll order them now!

 

[koalar]

Let’s hope so jock! The ring seemed fine and sturdy I’m 2nd guessing everything I’ve done….
Now I’m wondering if the drive shaft is in correctly .. like all the way in!?! It looks good from the outer
Like you say when your tired STOP I’ll have to get back on it tomorrow

the ring will be fine

there almost impossible to break

I ain't careful when I salvage c clips but as of yet none have ever broken.

The drive shaft slides back in place really easy. It will be fine.

The gearbox doesn't need time for the oil to circulate. Should require almost 2x1L bottles of oil.

What type of sound are you getting. YouTube clip is helpful as its hard to describe sounds. Scratching, scraping are more likely to be brakes.

 

[Baglady1990]

the ring will be fine

there almost impossible to break

I ain't careful when I salvage c clips but as of yet none have ever broken.

The drive shaft slides back in place really easy. It will be fine.

The gearbox doesn't need time for the oil to circulate. Should require almost 2x1L bottles of oil.

What type of sound are you getting. YouTube clip is helpful as its hard to describe sounds. Scratching, scraping are more likely to be brakes.

I think I bent inward the metal plate at the bottom of the brake disc! I was jacking the hub I did some messing about today with that plate and the calliper and went for a test drive… no noise! And so far no leak!

Your right about the drive shaft .. with a helping hand from the tranny grease it just slid in!
The hardest job was getting the seal in! Very limited space! Yesterday was a rough day but now I’ve done it and learned… I’m confident I could do it again if I have to!!
Thanks to all you kind chaps on here!

 

[koalar]

when you tap the new seal in

you will hear the sound change as it bottoms out

I look at the shaft. If there is a groove worn in it. I dont drive the new seal fully home so it runs on a slightly different part of the shaft. Even a millimetre or so from being fully home is fine.

never needed to do this on a Fiat the drive shaft there not spinning that fast and pretty hard.

From the photo it all looks fine

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

when you tap the new seal in

you will hear the sound change as it bottoms out

I look at the shaft. If there is a groove worn in it. I dont drive the new seal fully home so it runs on a slightly different part of the shaft. Even a millimetre or so from being fully home is fine.

never needed to do this on a Fiat the drive shaft there not spinning that fast and pretty hard.

From the photo it all looks fine

Listening for that change in sound is something I listen for when installing bearings too.

Good point about looking carefully at the surface of the shaft where the seal runs. I do the same as you if there is even a hint of a groove. However there is always the chance of some light corrosion or baked on debris destroying the new seal. Because of this one of the old boys I worked with when I was young and stupid always insisted on lightly burnishing the shaft where the seal would run with a piece of very fine grit wet and dry, just enough to "dull" the polish the previous seal had developed and clean up the shaft. Seems to work as I do it to this day and don't seem to have any problems with new seals leaking.

 

[portland_bill]

Listening for that change in sound is something I listen for when installing bearings too.

Good point about looking carefully at the surface of the shaft where the seal runs. I do the same as you if there is even a hint of a groove. However there is always the chance of some light corrosion or baked on debris destroying the new seal. Because of this one of the old boys I worked with when I was young and stupid always insisted on lightly burnishing the shaft where the seal would run with a piece of very fine grit wet and dry, just enough to "dull" the polish the previous seal had developed and clean up the shaft. Seems to work as I do it to this day and don't seem to have any problems with new seals leaking.

Reminds me of a 'clever' mechanic, who installed a drive shaft seal the opposite way around to put the seal lip away from a wear groove. Seemed to leak more than the old one.

 

[Baglady1990]

Reminds me of a 'clever' mechanic, who installed a drive shaft seal the opposite way around to put the seal lip away from a wear groove. Seemed to leak more than the old one.

Looking at the old seal it doesn’t look old at all!? I’m in no means experienced in this but I guess due to its location it’s not exactly open to the environment
So probably doesn’t age like other engine components any ideas why it started to leak?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Looking at the old seal it doesn’t look old at all!? I’m in no means experienced in this but I guess due to its location it’s not exactly open to the environment
So probably doesn’t age like other engine components any ideas why it started to leak?

These types of seal tend to harden with heat and age so then can't accommodate the very slight radial movements made by the shaft, then they leak. Closely compare the edges of the lip where it seals to the shaft and you can often see how it's flattened out a little and if you flex it with your finger you can often feel how it's harder compared to a new one (always a good thing to do when buying new seals as they harden with age too so if you mess about with elderly mechanicals, as I do, you may be supplied with "new" (unused) old stock which then starts leaking almost as soon as it's fitted. The sealing lip should feel quite soft and supple, if it's hard and doesn't deflect easily with your finger I wouldn't buy it.