Volkswagen emissions scandal

[AndyRKett]

If you think of it as a measure of how the car lives up to expectations it makes sense. If anything what the ownership surveys are a measure is "does it live up to the hype?" People don't expect as much from an Adam or a CEED or any of the lower end cars in general so if it is good they will praise, if your car is marketed as the last word in everything and then isn't, well that's not customers fault is it?



Overall I'm sure the Jag has more Tech inside than a 500 but to someone has used an I drive (which is likely at that level of the market) it may seem clunky while if you've never had in car Bluetooth before the 500 system might seem brilliant. They aren't marking systems overall just how it works compared to how they thought it would.

There is a psychology which goes beyond the price of the car. You keep quoting 10% more but you've not really substantiated that. As pointed out these surveys only show the opinion of the owner at that time and can't be used to compare one car to another because people who have paid £80k for a sports car like the f-type are not going to have the same attitude as the person who paid £10k for a panda, yet you're expecting them to be assessed on the same scale. No one will pick a panda over a jaguar based on the findings of this sort of survey that is the inherent problem with the argument.

 

[StevenRB45]

There is a psychology which goes beyond the price of the car. You keep quoting 10% more but you've not really substantiated that. As pointed out these surveys only show the opinion of the owner at that time and can't be used to compare one car to another because people who have paid £80k for a sports car like the f-type are not going to have the same attitude as the person who paid £10k for a panda, yet you're expecting them to be assessed on the same scale. No one will pick a panda over a jaguar based on the findings of this sort of survey that is the inherent problem with the argument.

I feel as though you are misunderstanding the survey it is not is car A better than car B..it is we asked a bunch of owners are you satisfied with your car and they said this, we then ranked the responses on how happy the respondents were. More VW owners were unhappy with the service they received when asked than other manufacturers not sure how that isn't relevant.

Also 10 percent...I'm not going to do the work for you but starting at the list prices of Fords and Vws may be good place to start your journey, try and make sure the VW has all the things included as standard on the competition, oh and comparable engine power. Just to get you started a base focus is 15995 a base golf is 17595 fiesta 10145 polo 11130. This is before you take fords famously malleable you list prices into account..obviously you could make an argument about resale, but we've just seen how fragile such a thing is..

 

[puntofan01]

But as previously pointed out the results of such a survey are only as reliable as the people taking the survey and there are some pretty stupid inconsistencies such as the fiat 500 apparently having better in car technology than a Jaguar F-Type. A ford galaxy has a better ride quality than a BMW 5 series, a Kia cee'd and a Vauxhall Adam apparently handle better than most Audis such as the A3 A5 and A6, I'm not saying these things are completely impossible but more like very unlikely. Overall It's not a fare comparison of one car or manufacturer versus another.

Overall I'm sure the Jag has more Tech inside than a 500 but to someone has used an I drive (which is likely at that level of the market) it may seem clunky while if you've never had in car Bluetooth before the 500 system might seem brilliant. They aren't marking systems overall just how it works compared to how they thought it would.

With the Jag and 500 in car tech: could the result mean that 500 owners find their system more user friendly than XF owners?

 

[AndyRKett]

I feel as though you are misunderstanding the survey

No I'm not misunderstanding it I'm ignoring it. It's very very limited for the main reason that it doesn't compare one manufacturer to another. It is an objective opinion that one person has made about their own car without any comparison.

So yes it may show how happy a group of people are with the car they bought, but it doesn't prove anything or show anything more than that.

Your original point is that fiat customer service is better than vw but all your survey shows is that fiat customers are happier with fiat service and that vw owners are slightly (and it is only slight) less happy with their customer service from vw garages. What it doesn't show is if a vw customer would be happy with he level of service that a fiat garage may provide. What I am saying is there is no comparison making the whole argument pointless.

 

[StevenRB45]

No I'm not misunderstanding it I'm ignoring it. It's very very limited for the main reason that it doesn't compare one manufacturer to another. It is an objective opinion that one person has made about their own car without any comparison.

So yes it may show how happy a group of people are with the car they bought, but it doesn't prove anything or show anything more than that.

Your original point is that fiat customer service is better than vw but all your survey shows is that fiat customers are happier with fiat service and that vw owners are slightly (and it is only slight) less happy with their customer service from vw garages. What it doesn't show is if a vw customer would be happy with he level of service that a fiat garage may provide. What I am saying is there is no comparison making the whole argument pointless.

I see, you don't agree with the result the survey is wrong.

 

[306maxi]

No I'm not misunderstanding it I'm ignoring it. It's very very limited for the main reason that it doesn't compare one manufacturer to another. It is an objective opinion that one person has made about their own car without any comparison.

So yes it may show how happy a group of people are with the car they bought, but it doesn't prove anything or show anything more than that.

Your original point is that fiat customer service is better than vw but all your survey shows is that fiat customers are happier with fiat service and that vw owners are slightly (and it is only slight) less happy with their customer service from vw garages. What it doesn't show is if a vw customer would be happy with he level of service that a fiat garage may provide. What I am saying is there is no comparison making the whole argument pointless.

I tend to agree

 

[AndyRKett]

I see, you don't agree with the result the survey is wrong.

I don't agree with the survey the design of the survey is wrong and doesn't allow for accurate interpretation of data.

 

[puntofan01]

I see, you don't agree with the result the survey is wrong.

I had been thinking that

 

[StevenRB45]

I don't agree with the survey the design of the survey is wrong and doesn't allow for accurate interpretation of data.

Well you can have your opinion, I shall have mine and I'm sure neither of us will lose any sleep.

Having listened to my work colleague again on the phone to VW for 40 minutes this afternoon, I can't help but feel there may be just a little truth in it but I accept that isolated experience does not reflect the overall picture.

 

[AndyRKett]

Well you can have your opinion, I shall have mine and I'm sure neither of us will lose any sleep.

Indeed.

The best experience I ever had at a dealership was with my Saab when a break pipe burst on my way to work one morning, I happened to be closer to the main dealers than anywhere else.

The usual labour price was £76 an hour plus a brake pipe.... Plus they gave me a courtesy car for half a day while I did it and the total price for all of this came to £35 as they discounted it massively to say "thanks for being a loyal customer" basically because I had an older car and I'd taken it to the main dealer.

If they were still in business I'd have bought a new Saab in a heart beat.

The worst experience was when I went into the landrover dealership to get some parts for my Range Rover and they treated me like a chav in a rolls Royce dealers, a friend of mine had a similar experience when he genuinely went to look at and buy a defender and they wouldn't even let him drive one. (He's a teacher who works at a small rural school) in the end he bought a RAV4.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

in the end he bought a RAV4.

And I bet its still going

 

[pooroldcodger]

Until recently I owned a 1999 E38 7 series which I had owned for 13 years.
Once I started doing work on it myself I used to have to go to the local BMW dealership to pick up parts that were too specific to be available from motor factors.
I had to walk through the showroom to get to the parts desk.
I felt like I was walking through a Mosque in my swimming trunks.
Uncomfortable?
Maybe it was just me.
The worst dealership experience was a Vauxhall one. I used to have an Omega and once they charged me for a full service and fitting a new part connected to the rear screen radio antenna. The only problem was they hadn't received the part, so they didn't actually do the job at all. I could prove that by the fact the car was parked in the same spot, and left deliberately in a certain gear, and there was not a spec of disturbed wheel dust . They admitted as such when challenged.
BMW dealership was always clinically efficient but boy were you paying for it, and as such it was hard to be impressed as the expectation level was sky high.

 

[StevenRB45]

Indeed.

The best experience I ever had at a dealership was with my Saab when a break pipe burst on my way to work one morning, I happened to be closer to the main dealers than anywhere else.

The usual labour price was £76 an hour plus a brake pipe.... Plus they gave me a courtesy car for half a day while I did it and the total price for all of this came to £35 as they discounted it massively to say "thanks for being a loyal customer" basically because I had an older car and I'd taken it to the main dealer.

If they were still in business I'd have bought a new Saab in a heart beat.

I understand that, you get good service you'll go back.

As to the subjective nature of customer service I'm totally happy with my current dealer. They are not cheap, although actually the same price or cheaper than the average Mazda franchise. What I like is not that they hand out flowers, as they don't, but that nothing is too much trouble. After my MOT and service I was handed an 8 page folder detailing brake and emissions test results, colour photos of faults of found, full bodywork inspection report and work carried out. Also as my front discs are nearing the end of their service life quotations for both replacement with Mazda genuine parts and replacement with a good quality alternative. This is on top of the fact they had no issue with me keeping their free of charge car for a day longer than was necessary due to going to a wedding..

Then you have the other end of the scale, a story I came across on the internet while researching my next car, bloke with a 4 year old Mazda 3 full of hell because Mazda wouldn't pay towards his DPF replacement..he did mention as an aside that the car had done 233,000 miles but I can imagine if JD power sent him a car they'd be getting zeros across the board.

 

[AGH1965]

Today several news sites reported that at least 30 managers were involved in Volkswagen's cheat, but Volkswagen denies.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...emissions-investigation-idUSKCN0S81F720151014
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...20151014?mod=related&channelName=businessNews

 

[varesecrazy]

RAV 4 =

And I bet its still going

so DULL ( if you like that sort of thing..). he's forgotten to turn it off.

 

[puntofan01]

I feel as though you are misunderstanding the survey it is not is car A better than car B..it is we asked a bunch of owners are you satisfied with your car and they said this, we then ranked the responses on how happy the respondents were. More VW owners were unhappy with the service they received when asked than other manufacturers not sure how that isn't relevant.

Also 10 percent...I'm not going to do the work for you but starting at the list prices of Fords and Vws may be good place to start your journey, try and make sure the VW has all the things included as standard on the competition, oh and comparable engine power. Just to get you started a base focus is 15995 a base golf is 17595 fiesta 10145 polo 11130. This is before you take fords famously malleable you list prices into account..obviously you could make an argument about resale, but we've just seen how fragile such a thing is..

What I don't get is at what point did vw become a borderline prestige brand? Not that many years ago, they made affordable cars for the masses, now they're seen as being a cut above the rest, and the cars are overpriced accordingly.

 

[AndyRKett]

What I don't get is at what point did vw become a borderline prestige brand? Not that many years ago, they made affordable cars for the masses,

....... Really?

With adverts like this, of people is suites and ball gowns; aired probably before you were born explain how they were pitching the self at the 'affordable cars for the masses' market, VW have been after a higher cut of the market for decades.

[ame]http://youtu.be/gKQIUJOr1GA[/ame]

[ame]http://youtu.be/KgHlAdSpn7Y[/ame]

[ame]http://youtu.be/JF-KJ5-KNQk[/ame]

 

[puntofan01]

....... Really?

With adverts like this, probably before you were born explain how they were pitching the self at the 'affordable cars for the masses' market

http://youtu.be/gKQIUJOr1GA

http://youtu.be/KgHlAdSpn7Y

Firstly, my comment was replying to stevenrb45, and thus wasn't aimed at you.

Secondly, that advert was intended with humour. I don't get the impression it was implying that VW was aiming to go upmarket. I believe their magazine ads also promoted the Mk2 Golf as a sensible, compact family runaround, rather than the object of aspiration that the current model is seen as now.

 

[AndyRKett]

Firstly, my comment was replying to stevenrb45, and thus wasn't aimed at you.

I don't get the impression it was implying that VW was aiming to go upmarket. I believe their magazine ads also promoted the Mk2 Golf as a sensible, compact family runaround, rather than the object of aspiration that the current model is seen as now.

Firstly you posted a question on a public forum and seeing as you seem incapable of replying without quoting an entire post so it's never clear who you're aiming anything at. So you don't get to pick and choose who answers your question, Stevenrb45 and my discussion was about dealersships so as usual I've got no idea where your question came from.

Secondly, the adverts were meant as humerous but aimed to show glamorous people driving VWs, vw have always made cheaper cars for those that dont have millions in the bank but half the aim of marketing is to make people 1. Want your product and 2. Be happy to pay more for it, the aim has always been to upsell.

The iPhone for example is no better than any other android phone but apple have the best marketing team in the world which is why people camp outside the apple stores ever iPhone release and are happy to pay 50% more just to have the latest phone from Apple. This is basically the same tactic that vw have been applying to vw cars for year. Wonder why the majority of cars in movies these days are all audis? And depending what film you watch you'll see VWs starting to creep into films aswell. This is not by accident

 

[306maxi]

What I don't get is at what point did vw become a borderline prestige brand? Not that many years ago, they made affordable cars for the masses, now they're seen as being a cut above the rest, and the cars are overpriced accordingly.

How old are you? Genuine question.....