Volkswagen emissions scandal

[puntofan01]

It's this quote that makes me bring up the classic car subject. To say someone buys a "needlessly huge" car is suggestive of that persons attitude like they buy a Range Rover because they want to feel important or brash so therefore they must pay more....... But there are those who simply enjoy maintaining and driving range rovers (or any other old or aging big car)

Again, we're talking about the people who buy them brand new. Unfortunately, that is the reputation that these people bring on themselves, but as a historic vehicle, it's a different matter.

 

[puntofan01]

I believe everyone was and is involved in "playing the game" I.e building and tuning cars specifically to do well in testing, with little to no hope of reaching the claimed figures except in a lab.

This upholds the letter of the regulations if not the spirit, VW decided to go their own way for commercial advantage and I hope it costs them every Euro they made due to it and more.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That is the whole point I have been trying to make throughout this whole discussion, and a large part of the reason I think it would be a good idea for the tax system to be based on engine size.

I couldn't agree more with this comment.

 

[puntofan01]

Couldn't agree more, VW doesn't really make any great cars, but their image is of a company that makes perfect product.

With the exception of the Scirocco, everything made by VW these days can be described as competent, but dull. You get the impression that they are designed by people who don't really have any actual interest in cars.

 

[gadge]

Again, we're talking about the people who buy them brand new.

You need to make that a bit clearer then because it kind of looks like a sweeping statement

Unfortunately, that is the reputation that these people bring on themselves, but as a historic vehicle, it's a different matter.

"These people" Who? .......this is what I mean, sweeping statments

 

[306maxi]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That is the whole point I have been trying to make throughout this whole discussion, and a large part of the reason I think it would be a good idea for the tax system to be based on engine size.

I couldn't agree more with this comment.

So let them pump out as much crap as long as they're below a certain size. Sorry, but that's just poor logic...

 

[306maxi]

With the exception of the Scirocco, everything made by VW these days can be described as competent, but dull. You get the impression that they are designed by people who don't really have any actual interest in cars.

And the Scirocco is different how?

It seems like you're just trying to appear to agree with people a bit so as to seem a bit less clueless.

 

[puntofan01]

You need to make that a bit clearer then because it kind of looks like a sweeping statement



"These people" Who? .......this is what I mean, sweeping statments

Well, the people who buy very large cars, and then drive them shockingly badly. I see large 4x4s being parked in decidedly dodgy manners. A better way of describing the people that give large cars their bad reputation is as not having driving capabilities that reflect their bank balance, lol!

 

[StevenRB45]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That is the whole point I have been trying to make throughout this whole discussion, and a large part of the reason I think it would be a good idea for the tax system to be based on engine size.

I couldn't agree more with this comment.

I don't think engine size taxation would fix the issues you have with the system. At the lower ends of the market Peugeot build a 270bhp 1.6 (a block shared with BMW) Merc builds a 345bhp 2.0. These and engines like them could easily be fitted to big cars and effectively cheat the system like down sized turbos have been used for CO2 reduction on the current test cycle. Even the 1.0 ecoboost can easily produce 200bhp, big cars would still exist they would simply be powered differently and in this sort of application the efficiency savings would be pretty minor given how stressed the units would be.

At the top end of the market it would be business as usual, if you can afford to lose a nice house in depreciation alone then it doesn't matter what the rate of tax is, you'll pay it for your status symbol.

 

[306maxi]

Well, the people who buy very large cars, and then drive them shockingly badly. I see large 4x4s being parked in decidedly dodgy manners. A better way of describing the people that give large cars their bad reputation is as not having driving capabilities that reflect their bank balance, lol!

Hurrah for sweeping generalisations....... Lol!

 

[puntofan01]

So let them pump out as much crap as long as they're below a certain size. Sorry, but that's just poor logic...

No. Again, you are missing the point. In recent years, manufacturers have deliberately tuned cars to do well in this test, knowing full well they won't be capable of these emission levels in real world driving. Hence the need for a far more accurate emissions test.

The reason I believe that tax should be based on engine size is because manufacturers cannot pull the wool over official eyes (for want of a better way of putting it) that way, hence we would then be paying fair and accurate tax.

 

[306maxi]

No. Again, you are missing the point. In recent years, manufacturers have deliberately tuned cars to do well in this test, knowing full well they won't be capable of these emission levels in real world driving. Hence the need for a far more accurate emissions test.

The reason I believe that tax should be based on engine size is because manufacturers cannot pull the wool over official eyes (for want of a better way of putting it) that way, hence we would then be paying fair and accurate tax.

Nope, as usual you're missing the point..... If you want to tax based on engine size then why should anyone try to make their cars efficient at all?

Stop telling people they're wrong and open your eyes to the fact that hour reasoning skills are virtually non-existent.

 

[puntofan01]

And the Scirocco is different how?

It seems like you're just trying to appear to agree with people a bit so as to seem a bit less clueless.

For me personally, the Scirocco is a triumph of pure styling. I get the impression from motoring mags that all on the whole, VWs are designed to be as technically "perfect" as poss, but without any form of flair, whereas when I see a Scirocco, I get the sense that the designers were allowed to let their hair down for that car.

For want of a better way of putting it, as someone who appreciates cars for their aesthetics and character, I find the majority of VWs leave me very cold.

 

[puntofan01]

I don't think engine size taxation would fix the issues you have with the system. At the lower ends of the market Peugeot build a 270bhp 1.6 (a block shared with BMW) Merc builds a 345bhp 2.0. These and engines like them could easily be fitted to big cars and effectively cheat the system like down sized turbos have been used for CO2 reduction on the current test cycle. Even the 1.0 ecoboost can easily produce 200bhp, big cars would still exist they would simply be powered differently and in this sort of application the efficiency savings would be pretty minor given how stressed the units would be.

At the top end of the market it would be business as usual, if you can afford to lose a nice house in depreciation alone then it doesn't matter what the rate of tax is, you'll pay it for your status symbol.

In my original comment, I mentioned an equivalency formula for downsized, turbocharged petrol engines to compensate for that very phenomenon.

 

[StevenRB45]

In my original comment, I mentioned an equivalency formula for downsized, turbocharged petrol engines to compensate for that very phenomenon.

So are you taxing displacement or specific output? Or both? Or is kerb weight a factor? I'm confused.

 

[dave]

For me personally, the Scirocco is a triumph of pure styling. I get the impression from motoring mags that all on the whole, VWs are designed to be as technically "perfect" as poss, but without any form of flair, whereas when I see a Scirocco, I get the sense that the designers were allowed to let their hair down for that car.

its over pricing kills any good points, i'd rather have the original

 

[puntofan01]

Hurrah for sweeping generalisations....... Lol!

That's the dubious joy of stereotypes. The actions of a proportion lead to a whole group of people being tarred with the same brush. :/

I'm a young male driver, so therefore, it is generally assumed that I will drive like a nutcase in a ridiculously modified hatchback like a citroen saxo, ford fiesta, or Vauxhall Corsa. Erm, nah...

 

[JimbbobW1977]

For me personally, the Scirocco is a triumph of pure styling. I get the impression from motoring mags that all on the whole, VWs are designed to be as technically "perfect" as poss, but without any form of flair, whereas when I see a Scirocco, I get the sense that the designers were allowed to let their hair down for that car.

For want of a better way of putting it, as someone who appreciates cars for their aesthetics and character, I find the majority of VWs leave me very cold.

VAG group pay a lot for advertising - the current Golf for example is 37% cheaper to make, it's comes with a torsion beam suspension on lower models, does without the the nice accelerator pedal of the old model and engineered door hinges of the old one.

Many years ago, VW did well with lovely opening cup holders and soft touch dashes that it made the public think they are so well engineered and we will look posh and the neighbours will twitch the curtains looking, and they did engineer decent enough cars back then.

Roll on 2015 they got greedy. Customer base is in their hands running on old reputations to sell cars.

The Scirocco is nothing special at all - it's looks okay however underneath it is the Golf from 2004, with less space.

 

[puntofan01]

So are you taxing displacement or specific output? Or both? Or is kerb weight a factor? I'm confused.

I would go for power output. Turbocharging a 1.6 to producing as much power as a N/A 3 litre would put a car in the 3 litre tax bracket.

 

[306maxi]

That's the dubious joy of stereotypes. The actions of a proportion lead to a whole group of people being tarred with the same brush. :/

I'm a young male driver, so therefore, it is generally assumed that I will drive like a nutcase in a ridiculously modified hatchback like a citroen saxo, ford fiesta, or Vauxhall Corsa. Erm, nah...

You don't drive a Corsa? But you do..... you do....

 

[puntofan01]

You don't drive a Corsa? But you do..... you do....

Very funny, lol!