Sounds like the battery just needs a charge Mercky.
Technical Stop Start Story
- Thread starter Mick F
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Technical Stop Start Story
OP
OP
Just needs a charge?
Ours is still ok, but only ok.
If traffic lights are quick, I'm depressing the clutch before Rosa auto-starts.
If traffic lights are slow/long - S/S is still pointless.
Yes, it goes for 30secs or even a minute, but that isn't long enough. Maybe the ACC is demanding the engine to be running. I haven't tried a full "all off" test yet.
As for the battery, why doesn't the uprated alternator take care of it?
Still trying to learn,
Mick.
Ours is still ok, but only ok.
If traffic lights are quick, I'm depressing the clutch before Rosa auto-starts.
If traffic lights are slow/long - S/S is still pointless.
Yes, it goes for 30secs or even a minute, but that isn't long enough. Maybe the ACC is demanding the engine to be running. I haven't tried a full "all off" test yet.
As for the battery, why doesn't the uprated alternator take care of it?
Still trying to learn,
Mick.
Because, as I said right at the beginning of your story, your battery has aged to the point where it no longer has sufficient charge capacity acceptance for the S/S system to function properly.
If you want full S/S functionality, you're going to have to shell out for a new battery.
The old one may only be 30% worn, it may show as perfectly good even on a sophisticated battery tester, but it's already worn past the point where the S/S system can continue to function normally.
It's a wear and tear item, so it's not going to be covered by most warranties.
Folks will quite likely have to get used to the idea of shelling out £100+ for a new battery every 3-4 years if they want to keep their S/S system fully functional.
And if there's any truth in some of what I've been reading elsewhere, if you get four years out of it, you've actually done rather well.
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OP
OP
Yeah, I know.
Is S/S worth a new £100+ battery?
I'm still waiting for a cigar lighter digital voltmeter to arrive from Amazon via Hong Kong, and when that arrives, I'll have some evidence to share on here.
I'm still staring in the face of a new battery though. It's just a matter of getting off my bum and doing something about it ............. or not.
Cheers,
Mick.
OP
OP
The cigar lighter digi voltmeter arrived in the post this morning.
We were out this afternoon, so I kept an eye on the voltage as we drove along, and when stopped with S/S in operation.
Results so far show that when running, the voltage sits solidly at 14.2volts, but as S/S comes in, it drops steadily over about 20secs to 12.2volts when the engine self-starts and the voltage goes back up immediately to 14.2volts.
So there we are then, a result. Battery is in need of replacement because it can't maintain enough oomph.
Stating the bleedin' obvious eh?
Mick.
We were out this afternoon, so I kept an eye on the voltage as we drove along, and when stopped with S/S in operation.
Results so far show that when running, the voltage sits solidly at 14.2volts, but as S/S comes in, it drops steadily over about 20secs to 12.2volts when the engine self-starts and the voltage goes back up immediately to 14.2volts.
So there we are then, a result. Battery is in need of replacement because it can't maintain enough oomph.
Stating the bleedin' obvious eh?
Mick.
The cigar lighter digi voltmeter arrived in the post this morning.
We were out this afternoon, so I kept an eye on the voltage as we drove along, and when stopped with S/S in operation.
Results so far show that when running, the voltage sits solidly at 14.2volts, but as S/S comes in, it drops steadily over about 20secs to 12.2volts when the engine self-starts and the voltage goes back up immediately to 14.2volts.
So there we are then, a result. Battery is in need of replacement because it can't maintain enough oomph.
Stating the bleedin' obvious eh?
Mick.
The battery is still fine if you are not too fussed about using S/S.
Piccolo Nero e Bella
Prominent member
The cigar lighter digi voltmeter arrived in the post this morning.
We were out this afternoon, so I kept an eye on the voltage as we drove along, and when stopped with S/S in operation.
Results so far show that when running, the voltage sits solidly at 14.2volts, but as S/S comes in, it drops steadily over about 20secs to 12.2volts when the engine self-starts and the voltage goes back up immediately to 14.2volts.
So there we are then, a result. Battery is in need of replacement because it can't maintain enough oomph.
Stating the bleedin' obvious eh?
Mick.
There you go. Exactly what mine did before battery replacement solved the issue.
It would be quite interesting to know if any early cars with stop start on a 500 are still on their original battery without experiencing problems and it is still operating correctly?
I know it's not just a Fiat problem and is a flaw in the stop start system that battery manufacturers haven't produced a decent solution, but I guess they are not going to try too hard if they can sell more batteries?
When did Fiat first introduce the system was it 2008 or 2009? Any cars of that era still have a good working stop start on their original batteries?
I know it's not just a Fiat problem and is a flaw in the stop start system that battery manufacturers haven't produced a decent solution, but I guess they are not going to try too hard if they can sell more batteries?
When did Fiat first introduce the system was it 2008 or 2009? Any cars of that era still have a good working stop start on their original batteries?
Interesting question, it was introduced in 2010. Mine is still very moody despite a BS reset, havent charged the battery yet which would probably sort it albeit temporarily, there must be something inherently wrong as the alternator should look after this on a newish battery. Maybe I can convince my indie service guys to give me a new one under warranty when I have the first service in jan. You'd think after 5 years of producing SS they'd have got it right! Mind you if recent denials are anything to go by it's no suprise.
Not in a modern fuel injection car, it'll only adjust mixture and over fuel if the engine has cooled a fair bit, normally with 15+ min of sitting for example. A few mins shouldn't be enough to cause an issue
OP
OP
Yes, thank you for suggesting this device. Very interesting.
This is the thing that puzzles me.
If my battery is absolutely fine as a starting battery, but NOT as a S/S battery, why the heck don't they turn down the voltage tolerance?
If Rosa can start on cold on a frosty morning having not been used for days, why can't the S/S system just leave it stopped for as long as I'd want?
I know that during S/S there will be current drain, but even as long as ten minutes should be easily possible. It's not as if the engine goes stone cold whilst stopped at traffic lights.
Next job for me is to see if the battery is covered on the warranty. If it is, I'll get the system checked out and obtain a battery death certificate. If it's not covered by warranty, I may just hang fire for now.
Thanks and regards,
Mick.
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ahmett
Prominent member
i am non ss and i am on my third battery since 2010 = )
You've a fault then, as you shouldn't be needing a battery every 15 months, even if it is a cheap nasty one.
ahmett
Prominent member
my first 2 batteries were fiat supplied rubbish (at least i didnt pay for them) my third battery is bosch with higher AH's so far so good. I have 9 months left with that battery before it runs out of warranty so if it decides to fail lets hope it does before september 2015 = )
S/S was standard for the 2010 model year; it was an option before that, though not often specified.
By all accounts, S/S on the few very early cars which had it as an option was even more troublesome than on those for which it was standard.
I have one of the very first (Mar 2010) cars with the standard-fit S/S; it always has, and still does, work perfectly (I've been careful with my battery); but I rather suspect this winter will be its last. In fairness, I should add that my typical journey profile does not often make use of the S/S capability, so my battery has led a much easier life than someone using it regularly in a congested city.
Irrespective of S/S fitment, ageing batteries waste some fuel due to their higher self-discharge rates; I suspect there is a point at which the fuel you save by replacing it early outweighs the marginal cost of replacing the battery before it reaches the stage when it becomes totally unserviceable.
I'd be interested to hear if any of those here who pay very close attention to their fuel economy have noticed an improvement after replacing a battery.
I can certainly notice a difference in consumption for the first 15-30 miles (in otherwise identical circumnstances) if the car has been standing for a week or more. Someone (UFI I think) once reported getting a near 20% improvement in short-term economy by precharging the battery.
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OP
OP
That could be the way forward for me and many others.
Charge the battery continually when parked at home, disconnect and drive away with a functioning S/S system and save some fuel at the same time.
It seems that when the battery is charged fully, the system works fine enough. Going to get the battery tested tomorrow and receive a report, then take get on the phone.
Thanks, Mick.
Interesting our 2011 1.2 Lounge S/S our journey profile is much more town than long drives so S/S kicks in quite a lot. The car has a massive 7000 miles on it in just over 3 years, it is literally used as a short journey runabout. Knowing that all these short journeys were not going to do the battery much good, I have always plugged it into a trickle charger\battery conditioner virtually every night.
It will be interesting to see whether this extend the battery life at all?
If it's a 2011 town car and it still works perfectly, then it already has! There are folks here having problems with newer cars than yours that have likely been left with a discharged battery for a significant period.
It will also have helped your fuel consumption a little. I've coined the term 'nano hybrid' to describe the act of precharging the car in this way each night.
yeh interesting, my mpg dropped off around the same time my SS starting acting up however I put both down to the arrival of cold weather. I have a boggo charger so I may give the battery a blast and see if it makes a difference. I know it was mentioned previously but is it ok to charge battery in situ, ie, still connected?
You can charge in situ providing you connect the positive lead of the charger to the positive battery terminal and the negative lead to the 'false' negative battery post or, (better), a solid earth point on the chassis.
Never connect the negative lead of the charger to the actual negative battery terminal with the battery connected or you risk frying £300+ of electronics.
The same rules apply if you want to jumpstart the car from another vehicle battery.
