"smart" motorways

[AndyRKett]

Now, what would you rather have coming towards you.
a) A driverless car, programmed by a computer wizard.
b) An enthusiastic driver.

While it might seem like an obvious answer, ask yourself how many air crashes have been avoided in the last 30+ years because of the introduction of automated systems?

When they put a computer in charge they have to prove its safety to the 10th degree and beyond.
When you put a person in charge there is no fail safe.

That’s not to say that a computer can avoid every single situation but then a computer will react in a predicable way, humans can do assorts of stupid things in a panic.

 

[portland_bill]

On the theme of people's stupidity, failing to look, etc., this popped up on a YouTube recommendation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zO50AeUAq8

Difficult to spot that coming?

 

[jimboy]

Where did that train come from?

 

[GeorgeDamper]

On the theme of people's stupidity, failing to look, etc., this popped up on a YouTube recommendation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zO50AeUAq8

Difficult to spot


Car driver was wearing Platforms

 

[AndyRKett]

On the theme of people's stupidity, failing to look, etc., this popped up on a YouTube recommendation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zO50AeUAq8

Difficult to spot that coming?

Someone would argue that it wasn’t the drivers fault, there should have been a barrier there to stop him driving into the path of an enormous easily avoidable slow moving train. Because we need to design things better so people don’t have to look ?

Humans are basically lemmings who learned to drive

 

[lambou1d]

I drove on a smart motorway once. Within a few miles of getting on there was a car on fire in the inside lane, no red cross on the previous gantry, car was partially obscured by smoke. By the time I was passing two cars had already hit the fire car. Next gantry said lane closed, next gantry said lane open, then within 100yrds there was a lorry stopped in the "open" lane with a shreaded tyre. Motorway signs were almost instructing drivers to hit stationary vehicles, neither of which could have driven to a refuge (refuges originally designed to be every 200m now +500m - to save money).
As they say in critical control point analysis "fail to danger"

 

[portland_bill]

A lot of the gantry signs are automated, as there are too many cameras for the staff to keep an eye on. There are cameras that measure the traffic flow, and alert when this slows. So a stationary vehicle will need following traffic to slow, back past two cameras, before the system alerts and pops up some signage. This is then highlighted to the staff, who review the cameras, and adjust as necessary.

If forward visibility is good, and traffic light, it is possible for all the traffic to change lanes early, keep flowing, and no alerts are created. Potentially more dangerous.

The automation is also why we often see speed restrictions on the opposite side of a motorway to the actual problem. People slow to 'rubberneck'. the cameras pick it up and pop up a speed restriction. That will remain until reviewed by a human.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

A lot of the gantry signs are automated, as there are too many cameras for the staff to keep an eye on. There are cameras that measure the traffic flow, and alert when this slows. So a stationary vehicle will need following traffic to slow, back past two cameras, before the system alerts and pops up some signage. This is then highlighted to the staff, who review the cameras, and adjust as necessary.

If forward visibility is good, and traffic light, it is possible for all the traffic to change lanes early, keep flowing, and no alerts are created. Potentially more dangerous.

The automation is also why we often see speed restrictions on the opposite side of a motorway to the actual problem. People slow to 'rubberneck'. the cameras pick it up and pop up a speed restriction. That will remain until reviewed by a human.

I’m surprised it’s not done on ANPR also. A123BCD hasn’t gone through camera 16 and every other car around it through cameras 12-15 have, so it must have broken down / be stationary, and then trigger an alert for the camera operators to review

 

[chris3234]

I’m surprised it’s not done on ANPR also. A123BCD hasn’t gone through camera 16 and every other car around it through cameras 12-15 have, so it must have broken down / be stationary, and then trigger an alert for the camera operators to review

It can't because the motorways cameras arnt anpr capable camera's the angle's and positioning are wrong


With the exception of the speed camera's of cause

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

It can't because the motorways cameras arnt anpr capable camera's the angle's and positioning are wrong


With the exception of the speed camera's of cause

But no reason they couldn’t fit the required cameras and implement this in theory

 

[AndyRKett]

ANPR tech can be fitted to any camera that can see a number plate, I remember a local garage to me use to have a monitor up behind the cash desk with a camera clearly reading the number plates as it was divided up so part of the screen was the cars as they came onto the forecourt, another part then displayed the car reg on a yellow background to prove almost that it had read the plate, then there was another bit that said the make and model of car. This was just a standard CCTV camera on a petrol station so I’m
Sure the technology is not difficult.

That said the cameras on smart motorways don’t do ANPR No idea why ?

 

[varesecrazy]

That said the cameras on smart motorways don’t do ANPR No idea why ?

Cost..
public purse.. cheapest quote when it went to tender

 

[dave]

That said the cameras on smart motorways don’t do ANPR No idea why ?

some do google has a handy map so crooks can avoid them. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=51.096734099441385,-1.5376116042042587&z=8

 

[GeorgeDamper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48783615

 

[chris3234]

ANPR tech can be fitted to any camera that can see a number plate, I remember a local garage to me use to have a monitor up behind the cash desk with a camera clearly reading the number plates as it was divided up so part of the screen was the cars as they came onto the forecourt, another part then displayed the car reg on a yellow background to prove almost that it had read the plate, then there was another bit that said the make and model of car. This was just a standard CCTV camera on a petrol station so I’m
Sure the technology is not difficult.

That said the cameras on smart motorways don’t do ANPR No idea why ?

Cost no doubt of installing thousands more cameras it the appropriate places with the correct angles for reading lisence plates



Most of the current ones are mounted high up and pan a tilt to give operators the ability to moniter events

 

[AndyRKett]

Cost no doubt of installing thousands more cameras it the appropriate places with the correct angles for reading lisence plates



Most of the current ones are mounted high up and pan a tilt to give operators the ability to moniter events

I’m not sure thats quite the issue, in Norwich they have big tall ANPR cameras which are mounted very high up pointing down at a fairly sharp angle at the road and on the top of green poles these are ANPR cameras for spotting untaxed/illegal cars. They are easily as high as the motor way cameras.

There is a fine line between safety and law versus government interference when it comes to ANPR, if they were everywhere then the government would be able to track you from one side of the country to the other. There has to be a benefit in both cost and what it would achieve to install these systems. I’m sure that most of what’s already in place could be adapted to read number plates as they can zoom in a ridiculous distance and they have the fidelity for reading number plates if needed.

 

[varesecrazy]

I suspect the Smart sections we are mainly discussing have been in service for @15 years..

Until I got 'caught speeding' on one and went on the optional 'Smart Motorways Education Course' I just thought it was A section of Motorway..

I learnt quite a few things:
If you think your vehicle has an issue and pull into a refuge.. check your syres..wheels.. roof load..etc
If you are happy and wish to continue your journey YOU HAVE TO USE THE EMERGENCY PHONE
They arrange closing of lane 1 so you can then pull out traffic free

The Adaptive speed is indeed there to control traffic flow.. but in the Section I now use its a blanket 50 for emissions control..

I got 'ticketed' for 58 in a 50

I was doing 70..had for the last hour..

Approaching the 1st gantry it said 50
The one just beyond it said 60

So I lifted of for 60.. nobody around me braked for 50..

The advice on the course was I shouldve had that cancelled.

I do wonder when the indicated limit flashes before your eyes ..is there a time tolerance..? Or is it down to JoePublic to argue the toss in Court..?

 

[portland_bill]

I do wonder when the indicated limit flashes before your eyes ..is there a time tolerance..? Or is it down to JoePublic to argue the toss in Court..?

At an annual trainers meeting, we had a guy from Highways England give a short talk about the new types of motorways. Not particualry clear or informative, but one point remembered is that there is a delay between setting a new limit and the cameras triggering. Can't remember what it was, but it is enough, so if it changes when close, there should be no problem.
I asked if the delay was still there when the limit was raised, e.g. 40-50, or back to national. He couldn't answer that one. Being controlled by a computer, if the limit went up just ahead of me, I'd be accelerating gently.

Of course, all these speed ones on gantries are reading your rear number plate. Being tailgated by anyone will hide your plate. So when speeding, you need a tailgater.

 

[DaveMcT]

Of course, all these speed ones on gantries are reading your rear number plate. Being tailgated by anyone will hide your plate. So when speeding, you need a tailgater.

When the camera is on the left (as with the average speed type) you can sit alongside a tall HGV.

M42 around B'ham drops to 60 the moment there's any traffic to mention, along with some random 50s which look remarkably similar to 60 from a distance. That causes much amusement as people brake then get back on the gas. So much for emissions.
Any incident (no matter how minor) drops the limit to 40. When it's busy, the whole motorway never gets back to normal speed causing all the risky frustrated driver behaviour.

 

[GeorgeDamper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-56089258