Technical Rusted rear wheel drum won't move

[AnthonyH]

I'm trying to replace the brake shoes on an old Grande Punto but the wheel drum won't come off.

I've tried levering them off, and hitting it with a big hammer but still not luck.

There is a youtube video that says use M10 nuts to push the drum off, but I don't have any M10 holes, just the M12 wheel nuts holes.

Any ideas what I should do?

 

[bugsymike]

I'm trying to replace the brake shoes on an old Grande Punto but the wheel drum won't come off.

I've tried levering them off, and hitting it with a big hammer but still not luck.

There is a youtube video that says use M10 nuts to push the drum off, but I don't have any M10 holes, just the M12 wheel nuts holes.

Any ideas what I should do?

The using bolts in the threaded holes only works if not really seized otherwise it just tears the threads out.
Personally over many years my method is to oil around the centre where the drum meets the hub, then use a large copper hammer/mallet on the flat surface between the thread holes/studs etc. and hit squarely this always results in the rust grip letting go.
If the drum is worn and brakes shoes are sitting in that wear groove then levering from alternate sides usually overcomes that, although if badly worn the anti rattle spring retaining washers may need attention/replacement afterwards.
I never hit on the outside or lip of the drum as that is highly likely to cause damage.
When refitting drum I often put a smear of copperslip grease on the flange to prevent a repeat occurrence.

 

[AnthonyH]

The using bolts in the threaded holes only works if not really seized otherwise it just tears the threads out.
Personally over many years my method is to oil around the centre where the drum meets the hub, then use a large copper hammer/mallet on the flat surface between the thread holes/studs etc. and hit squarely this always results in the rust grip letting go.
If the drum is worn and brakes shoes are sitting in that wear groove then levering from alternate sides usually overcomes that, although if badly worn the anti rattle spring retaining washers may need attention/replacement afterwards.
I never hit on the outside or lip of the drum as that is highly likely to cause damage.
When refitting drum I often put a smear of copperslip grease on the flange to prevent a repeat occurrence.

That worked! Thanks.

The next problem is getting the handbrake cable out of the old shoe, the retaining spring is really stiff and I can barely move it. I've been fighting with it for half an hour now lol. Is there any trick to this? A picture of the pest is below.

 

[AnthonyH]

An hour later and it is off, but now I can't get the handbrake cable into the new shoe...ugh..

That spring could double up as a coil on the suspension.

 

[varesecrazy]

An hour later and it is off, but now I can't get the handbrake cable into the new shoe...ugh..

That spring could double up as a coil on the suspension.

Have you stripped the cable in the car..
Like in my GUIDE?

Handbrake maintenance

Internal trim and cable adjustment

www.fiatforum.com

Makes sense to lubricate the cable now..

 

[varesecrazy]

I'm trying to replace the brake shoes on an old Grande Punto but the wheel drum won't come off.

I've tried levering them off, and hitting it with a big hammer but still not luck.

There is a youtube video that says use M10 nuts to push the drum off, but I don't have any M10 holes, just the M12 wheel nuts holes.

Any ideas what I should do?

Pretty sure mine all have the thread..

Is I have used them with the special bolts..

Perhaps yours were cheap replacement drums?

 

[AnthonyH]

Have you stripped the cable in the car..
Like in my GUIDE?

Handbrake maintenance

Internal trim and cable adjustment

www.fiatforum.com

Makes sense to lubricate the cable now..

Before I started I had the handbrake off and then loosened the handbrake adjuster. In hindsight I should have loosened the handbrake adjuster and then let the handbrake off - what difference would this make? And would loosening the handbrake adjuster even more now make it easier to get the handbrake cable back on the new shoe? That spring is trying to strip my skin off lol.

Is there a good way to lubricate the cable? I have plenty of grease but wouldn't know where it should go.

 

[bugsymike]

Re the cable in the shoe I grip the end with a pair of pliers or mole grips and work the spring back away from the handbrake lever using a pair of long nose pliers gently nipping the cable.
Backing off the adjustment makes life easier as less tension on the spring.
By the way a assume you will wire brush off the flange and drum where they meet and a very thin smear of copperslip should help for next time.

 

[AnthonyH]

Re the cable in the shoe I grip the end with a pair of pliers or mole grips and work the spring back away from the handbrake lever using a pair of long nose pliers gently nipping the cable.
Backing off the adjustment makes life easier as less tension on the spring.

Righto I'll back the cable off as much as I can tomorrow and double up on the pliers! Thanks for the info!

I've already cleaned the drum/flange and will grease at the contact points when the shoes are ready to go on.

 

[varesecrazy]

I had to change a Really bad cable, outer was all corroded and swollen

Completely unhooked in the car

Then you can take off All of that spring pressure

New cable was night vs day in both feel and brake pressure..
So lube from both ends.. Work back and forth

Then wipe dry the 4" / 100mm.nearest the drums

Before the rebuild..

How much of a wear lip in the drums..?

I use a Dremel on mine.. Works beautifully with drum mounted facing outwards

 

[AnthonyH]

I had to change a Really bad cable, outer was all corroded and swollen

Completely unhooked in the car

Then you can take off All of that spring pressure

New cable was night vs day in both feel and brake pressure..
So lube from both ends.. Work back and forth

Then wipe dry the 4" / 100mm.nearest the drums

Before the rebuild..

How much of a wear lip in the drums..?

I use a Dremel on mine.. Works beautifully with drum mounted facing outwards

I could feel a tiny lip as I cleaned the drum, now you've mentioned it I'm tempted to give it a going over with my dremmel!

The drum is back on the car because I don't want to leave it on a stand in the driveway overnight. The car is right next to a busy footpath. And as I've now noticed the brake adjuster is in too poor a shape to go back, I'm going to have to wait for a new one to arrive and in the mean time start on the other brake.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I use a coarse flapper wheel 40mm diameter and my cordless drill.

 

[varesecrazy]

I use a coarse flapper wheel 40mm diameter and my cordless drill.

On the car?

Using 2 x wheel bolts to mount the drum 'facing outwards'

Flick it to start it rotating.. The friction from the tool will keep it spinning.. So you get a pretty uniform finish

 

[AnthonyH]

I got the other wheel drum off a little earlier and the shoes themselves are OK...but that brake is scraping really badly.

Its not the bearing because it only scrapes when I brake. It could be the handbrake because on the adjuster at the handbrake lever this side is at 45 degrees down like this \

Any other ideas on why its scraping?

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,

Looks like you are working hard on this but winning.

SAFETY CRITICAL .... if changing shoes on one side you MUST also change the shoes on the other side.

The handbrake balance bar will only look even when both rear brake side have had the same work and adjusted correctly.

Regards
Jack

 

[AnthonyH]

Hi,

Looks like you are working hard on this but winning.

SAFETY CRITICAL .... if changing shoes on one side you MUST also change the shoes on the other side.

The handbrake balance bar will only look even when both rear brake side have had the same work and adjusted correctly.

Regards
Jack

It looks like the problem was the drum. I bought this car recently in poor condition and its been sat doing not much for long periods and the drum has developed rusty dirty lines going across it. I'm currently cleaning them off by hand. I have an engine degreaser but I'm a bit reluctant to use any products in case it contaminates the shoes. Any recommends for cleaning products for drums?

(I will be changing both back brakes)

 

[varesecrazy]

I got the other wheel drum off a little earlier and the shoes themselves are OK...but that brake is scraping really badly.

Its not the bearing because it only scrapes when I brake.

You mean it's noisy as you apply the shoes to the hub, silent when running free?

Apply the handbrake load 1 click at a time.. See if the drum feels
Lobed.. Like a Cam

If it feels smooth and progressive when manually loaded you maybe have a contamination issue

 

[bugsymike]

It's not the handbrake bar inside the drum touching the hub?
Or the shield around the back plate touching the drum?
I have come across odd cable lengths at the adjuster bar where only one side handbrake cable has been replaced.

 

[AnthonyH]

So I got the first pair of shoes on today but when pumping it to finish off - the cylinder popped...

It looked like one of the shoes was sat in the middle of the cylinder metal press point but the other shoe was right at the bottom of the metal press point. I presume that's what made it pop? Are there any other possible causes for this? Would it have made any difference if I'd pumped with the engine on?

This is the first set of shoes I've ever tried to replace and it seems like I've made every mistake possible. I still have the second shoe, and its scraping to find, after I've done this one.

 

[varesecrazy]

So I got the first pair of shoes on today but when pumping it to finish off - the cylinder popped...

It looked like one of the shoes was sat in the middle of the cylinder metal press point but the other shoe was right at the bottom of the metal press point. I presume that's what made it pop? Are there any other possible causes for this?

If the shoes can only travel outwards by a few mm until they press against the drum, there is no way the piston can just popout

If you got the drum on ok, then the shoes couldn't be too far "off centre"