Technical Removing stuck bolt

[AnthonyH]

I fitted two new shocks a few days ago and upon driving it over big bumps I could notice the suspension clanging. I checked and could see one of the mounts hadn't been tightened sufficiently, its about 2mm off flush. So I've been trying to get that bolt off and having no luck. I've tried hitting the mount with a hammer and levering it, the head is getting quite close to stripped so i've stopped and I'm stuck.

I think its so tightly held that I probably wasn't hearing any movement of the mount and was instead hearing the springs bottom out. The springs are very rusted and probably don't like the new shocks. I think I could put new springs on this and that would be the end of the problem.

Possibly I could drive it over some more bumps with the other bolt loose and see if that sets the stuck one free.

What else are my options?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I fitted two new shocks a few days ago and upon driving it over big bumps I could notice the suspension clanging. I checked and could see one of the mounts hadn't been tightened sufficiently, its about 2mm off flush. So I've been trying to get that bolt off and having no luck. I've tried hitting the mount with a hammer and levering it, the head is getting quite close to stripped so i've stopped and I'm stuck.

I think its so tightly held that I probably wasn't hearing any movement of the mount and was instead hearing the springs bottom out. The springs are very rusted and probably don't like the new shocks. I think I could put new springs on this and that would be the end of the problem.

Possibly I could drive it over some more bumps with the other bolt loose and see if that sets the stuck one free.

What else are my options?

View attachment 440312

The bolt shown above would be a prime candidate for Vibro shocking. What you do is "shock" the end of the bolt in line with it's axis, so, basically whack it on the end with a hammer. The idea is to introduce percussive shock into the fixing which will be transferred along the axis of the bolt into the work piece and it's thread. You don't need to "whack" it into the backside of tomorrow though - you're not trying to turn it into a rivet head! What's required is a persistent firm tap, repeated over and over and over again. If there's any possibility that something like Plus Gas, P B Blaster or other "proper" releasing fluid can be persuaded to creep in then it can often help. The technique is to tap away for a while and then try a spanner/socket/whatever on it and see whether, with reasonable force applied, you can unscrew the fixing. If you are needing to apply enough force that there's danger of the bolt snapping then stop and do some more tapping. keep on doing this until the bolt unscrews or you run out of patience.

View attachment 440313

I'm not sure what you are trying to show us here. Looks like the bolt is loosened? Is it refusing to tighten?

Regarding the Vibro Shocking technique. I was shown this many years ago by one of the older men in the workshop and was very sceptical about it working but, by golly, it often does. Of course there are some beyond helping and will snap off unless something like an oxy-acetylene torch is available but I've had great success with it. If you have access to an air compressor and air hammer then that works very well with a flat faced punch. I like this technique so much that some years ago I bought an actual Vibroshock socket set:



I've had particular success with seized brake bleed nipples, in fact I've not snapped one since! Only trouble is you do need a reasonably "meaty" compressor and air hammer because sometimes you need to let it hammer on for quite a while. The "secret to success" is to let the vibrations loosen the fixing and not to try forcing it with the wrench handle too soon. Once the vibrations have done their work the wrench handle can be turned with just average force. If it's needing to be forced then you're still likely to snap the fixing. Just let it rattle on until it slackens with only moderate force applied. Same applies to the tapping with a hammer. It's not the force used, in fact don't hit it too hard, all you'll end up doing is mushrooming it. Realize it's the vibration of the tapping which disturbs the corrosion and allows the fixing to be slackened.

 

[AnthonyH]

The bolt shown above would be a prime candidate for Vibro shocking. What you do is "shock" the end of the bolt in line with it's axis, so, basically whack it on the end with a hammer. The idea is to introduce percussive shock into the fixing which will be transferred along the axis of the bolt into the work piece and it's thread. You don't need to "whack" it into the backside of tomorrow though - you're not trying to turn it into a rivet head! What's required is a persistent firm tap, repeated over and over and over again. If there's any possibility that something like Plus Gas, P B Blaster or other "proper" releasing fluid can be persuaded to creep in then it can often help. The technique is to tap away for a while and then try a spanner/socket/whatever on it and see whether, with reasonable force applied, you can unscrew the fixing. If you are needing to apply enough force that there's danger of the bolt snapping then stop and do some more tapping. keep on doing this until the bolt unscrews or you run out of patience.

That sounds exactly like what I should do, thank you! I've got this can of WD40

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MEHN4VC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I think it might be similar to Plus Gas?

I'm not sure what you are trying to show us here. Looks like the bolt is loosened? Is it refusing to tighten?

I added that picture to show the springs, i'm not really sure how much performance these rusty things have lost, but its probably a lot. I suppose I'm wondering at what point do springs need to be replaced?

Regarding the Vibro Shocking technique. I was shown this many years ago by one of the older men in the workshop and was very sceptical about it working but, by golly, it often does. Of course there are some beyond helping and will snap off unless something like an oxy-acetylene torch is available but I've had great success with it. If you have access to an air compressor and air hammer then that works very well with a flat faced punch. I like this technique so much that some years ago I bought an actual Vibroshock socket set:

The vibroset does look good.

I've thought about buying a single use blow torch or similar. But it would be a last resort as I'm uncertain about the technique or what to buy.

I've had particular success with seized brake bleed nipples, in fact I've not snapped one since! Only trouble is you do need a reasonably "meaty" compressor and air hammer because sometimes you need to let it hammer on for quite a while. The "secret to success" is to let the vibrations loosen the fixing and not to try forcing it with the wrench handle too soon. Once the vibrations have done their work the wrench handle can be turned with just average force. If it's needing to be forced then you're still likely to snap the fixing. Just let it rattle on until it slackens with only moderate force applied. Same applies to the tapping with a hammer. It's not the force used, in fact don't hit it too hard, all you'll end up doing is mushrooming it. Realize it's the vibration of the tapping which disturbs the corrosion and allows the fixing to be slackened.

I'll be careful and take my time. I'll have some time tomorrow to give this a go and will let you know what happens

 

[chris3234]

Get the Straw in the hole on the other side and try to spray in the direction of the other bolt

Should hopefully get a good ammont on to the back on the stock bolt then

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've got this can of WD40

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MEHN4VC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I think it might be similar to Plus Gas?

There are many opinions on WD40. Technically I believe it to be primarily a Water Dispersant. I believe it was developed for use by the military many years ago to attempt to disperse water from ignition systems? Whereas Plus Gas and it's American counterpart P B Blaster are specifically intended to be used as a releasing agent. I always have a can of WD40 around my garage somewhere but would reach for the Plus Gas for a job like this.

There are also sprays which contain a freezing agent in addition to releasing fluid, for instance this: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-235091-loctite-freeze-release-penetrating-oil.aspx They actually work quite well but you need to use quite a lot each time to get a good freezing action.

 

[AnthonyH]

There are many opinions on WD40. Technically I believe it to be primarily a Water Dispersant. I believe it was developed for use by the military many years ago to attempt to disperse water from ignition systems? Whereas Plus Gas and it's American counterpart P B Blaster are specifically intended to be used as a releasing agent. I always have a can of WD40 around my garage somewhere but would reach for the Plus Gas for a job like this.

There are also sprays which contain a freezing agent in addition to releasing fluid, for instance this: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-235091-loctite-freeze-release-penetrating-oil.aspx They actually work quite well but you need to use quite a lot each time to get a good freezing action.

Thanks for that, i've wondered if there was a stronger releasing agent than this WD40. I've had a look at the link and it certainly looks to have a better action with freezing and then releasing than the WD40. I'm also going to have another look at Plus Gas and P B Blaster.

I have decided on the tools to use and they're ready to go...but its raining until late afternoon here, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get out there. Atleast its gone mild

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for that, i've wondered if there was a stronger releasing agent than this WD40. I've had a look at the link and it certainly looks to have a better action with freezing and then releasing than the WD40. I'm also going to have another look at Plus Gas and P B Blaster.

I have decided on the tools to use and they're ready to go...but its raining until late afternoon here, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get out there. Atleast its gone mild

Aye Anthony, weather's pretty "dreich" up here too. It's wet underfoot with intermittent drizzle, not all that cold though.

I was introduced to Plus Gas many years ago before aerosol cans became popular. It came in an unpressurized can with a spout. When they started supplying it in aerosol cans it was a big improvement - was always difficult trying to introduce the liquid to something overhead when the can was unpressurized. Plus gas is my standard go to when I think a fixing is going to need a bit of "encouragement" to come undone. Standard WD40 does work to some extent but isn't a true penetrating agent. I've noticed though that WD40 now seems to come in many different guises and one is labeled "Penetrant" so maybe that actual product would work better, I've been meaning to give it a try but haven't seen any of these specialist ones yet.

A couple of techniques I've found to work with very tight nuts and bolts are:

Although it seems counter intuitive, try very slightly tightening the fixing first. All you want to feel is that it just, and only just, moves. Then try undoing it. Sometimes a fixing will start to slacken but then tighten up and resist further turning. If this happens give it a good shot of releasing oil and then tighten it a wee bit. then undo a wee bit, then tighten again, then slacken again and just keep doing this and squirting it with release oil untill you win the battle.

Sometimes you might find that tapping the head of the bolt in all directions, So a few persuasive taps on the end followed by a few to the side from one direction, then some more from another direction and then some more from another direction - maybe using a punch if it's difficult to get the hammer to the head of the bolt. Quite often this will break the hold of some of the corrosion and let you undo it.

Our Becky - 2010 Panda 1.32 Dynamic Eco - is at the garage for her MOT today. Her back axle is somewhat touch and go regarding rust so I've got my fingers crossed! I don't think there's anything else she might fail on but it'll be a bummer if they decide the back axle is too rusty.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Oh, by the way, if you decide to try the freezing stuff, then be aware you need to give it a good dose of the stuff. A quick squirt, as you would with a normal penetrating/releasing oil/fluid, won't have enough freezing effect so you tend to use a lot of the spray on any one given job which makes it quite uneconomic. I've only bought one can of the stuff and I used half the can on just one job - it did work though.

 

[AnthonyH]

I managed to get some time on it a while ago but can't shift the bolt with tapping or hammering. I tried the techniques you suggested although the inclement weather has meant I haven't spent as long on it as I'd have liked. i.e. it started raining again

Next thing is to buy some better spray. I have looked at PlusGas but can't get it sent quickly. I have however found some WD40 penetrant. It isn't the same as the multi-use WD40 I currently have. At a guess it'll be a copy of PlusGas so maybe i'll try that? It'd arrive tomorrow so I can have another go at this bolt on Friday morning.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006UCJ5NU

How did Becky go?

The back axle on my EVO is not so good, but i'm expecting it to pass its MOT in June. I've been thinking about getting waxoyl but these cars of mine keep me so busy with repairs i don't have time for forward planning!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I managed to get some time on it a while ago but can't shift the bolt with tapping or hammering. I tried the techniques you suggested although the inclement weather has meant I haven't spent as long on it as I'd have liked. i.e. it started raining again

Next thing is to buy some better spray. I have looked at PlusGas but can't get it sent quickly. I have however found some WD40 penetrant. It isn't the same as the multi-use WD40 I currently have. At a guess it'll be a copy of PlusGas so maybe i'll try that? It'd arrive tomorrow so I can have another go at this bolt on Friday morning.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006UCJ5NU

How did Becky go?

The back axle on my EVO is not so good, but i'm expecting it to pass its MOT in June. I've been thinking about getting waxoyl but these cars of mine keep me so busy with repairs i don't have time for forward planning!

Been sort of dribbling off and on here too. Left Becky at Kenny's garage this morning and he said he'd ring me when he's done with her. I've been getting MOTs done there for quite a few years now and I'm well known to Kenny and his "merry men". He knows I have another car and I've said to him before now that if his day isn't going too well to bump me to the bottom of the list. He hasn't rung yet so I'm guessing today's one of those days. I'd better ring him soon though as it takes me around half an hour to walk down to his garage.

Oh, there you are, just as I was about to click on "post reply" and the phone rings! It's Ryan, Kenny's son to tell me Becky's passed her MOT and I can come down anytime now and pick her up. So all my anxiety with her rusty back axle was for nowt and I can now think about maybe having a go at doing it myself when the warm summer months return!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

PS. do let us know how you get on with the WD40 Penetrant won't you?

 

[AnthonyH]

Been sort of dribbling off and on here too. Left Becky at Kenny's garage this morning and he said he'd ring me when he's done with her. I've been getting MOTs done there for quite a few years now and I'm well known to Kenny and his "merry men". He knows I have another car and I've said to him before now that if his day isn't going too well to bump me to the bottom of the list. He hasn't rung yet so I'm guessing today's one of those days. I'd better ring him soon though as it takes me around half an hour to walk down to his garage.

Oh, there you are, just as I was about to click on "post reply" and the phone rings! It's Ryan, Kenny's son to tell me Becky's passed her MOT and I can come down anytime now and pick her up. So all my anxiety with her rusty back axle was for nowt and I can now think about maybe having a go at doing it myself when the warm summer months return!

Yay! Happy days!

It is a little anxious waiting for an MOT result. And nice when its all over!

On MOT days I get it done and wait at the Library nearby. I get an afternoon sat reading local history once per year. It is quite interesting reading about all the old bridges, railways, people and events. In January just gone I was there and in came some people in their 70s, they were locals and were talking just like my grandparents from 40 years earlier. It was so very surreal having the local history come to life!! And realising I was part of it!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yay! Happy days!

It is a little anxious waiting for an MOT result. And nice when its all over!

On MOT days I get it done and wait at the Library nearby. I get an afternoon sat reading local history once per year. It is quite interesting reading about all the old bridges, railways, people and events. In January just gone I was there and in came some people in their 70s, they were locals and were talking just like my grandparents from 40 years earlier. It was so very surreal having the local history come to life!! And realising I was part of it!

Happy days indeed! He has given me a couple of advisories though. One for the rear axle and one for both rear springs, both for corrosion. I'm well known at this garage and have always felt i can speak honestly to them so I mentioned that I was slightly surprised he hadn't failed her on the rear axle. Of course all the usual leg pulling about changing the certificate to a fail followed but once the "silliness" was over he said it wasn't actually much different to last year and, although pretty rusty, he'd given the spring pans a pretty good whack and looked closely at them and in his opinion they were still structurally sound. He was actually more worried about the rear springs because he said once they get rusty they can snap unexpectedly at almost any time. So I think I've got a nice summer project in prospect now.

Talking about the old days, we are in our 70's now and, as I've mentioned in another thread somewhere, my brother died just before Christmas. He never married and lived in the family home with Mum until she died and then on his own until his death. We've been working our way through a lifetime's collection of "stuff" - both his and Mum's - and many memories are being stirred. We've come across a lot of family pictures and many which stir thoughts of how our town looked all those years ago. I'm amazed at how it's changed, I suppose because the changes take place slowly so you don't remember them all. Of course, with my obsession with cars, motor cycles and all things IC engine powered, I've been particularly interested in pictures showing our cars. There are one's of my granddad with his old Wolseley and my dad with his Phase one Standard Vanguard and many others - all cars I remember. But here's one I don't remember although I do remember him talking about it a lot so he must have really treasured it:

It was a 6 cylinder MG, which I think was unusual as most were 4 cylinder? Anyway, that's me on the bonnet, probably around 1948/49? I don't remember being there but it must be me because he's written my name on the back with "Mechanical Whizz Kid" as a comment. He must have had second sight! I do remember the spaniel very well, he was the apple of my mother's eye and named "Derry". As I'm getting older I do find myself yearning back for the simpler type of life we lead then.

Edit, PS, just look at those wonderful skinny cross ply tyres, no wonder learning to "drift" was an oft practiced skill in those days.

 

[chris3234]

Good news then about the old girl Jock glass she has passed

And ofcause I'm refering to the car and not Mrs j

 

[AnthonyH]

Happy days indeed! He has given me a couple of advisories though. One for the rear axle and one for both rear springs, both for corrosion. I'm well known at this garage and have always felt i can speak honestly to them so I mentioned that I was slightly surprised he hadn't failed her on the rear axle. Of course all the usual leg pulling about changing the certificate to a fail followed but once the "silliness" was over he said it wasn't actually much different to last year and, although pretty rusty, he'd given the spring pans a pretty good whack and looked closely at them and in his opinion they were still structurally sound. He was actually more worried about the rear springs because he said once they get rusty they can snap unexpectedly at almost any time. So I think I've got a nice summer project in prospect now.

A successful MOT day always feels like a win on the horses to me! So glad it went well.

I'm probably going to do my springs, perhaps imminently. The shocks are supposed to be fairly easy to do, so I await stuffing up my springs lol No doubt you'll change your springs a lot easier than I will.

Talking about the old days, we are in our 70's now and, as I've mentioned in another thread somewhere, my brother died just before Christmas. He never married and lived in the family home with Mum until she died and then on his own until his death. We've been working our way through a lifetime's collection of "stuff" - both his and Mum's - and many memories are being stirred. We've come across a lot of family pictures and many which stir thoughts of how our town looked all those years ago. I'm amazed at how it's changed, I suppose because the changes take place slowly so you don't remember them all. Of course, with my obsession with cars, motor cycles and all things IC engine powered, I've been particularly interested in pictures showing our cars. There are one's of my granddad with his old Wolseley and my dad with his Phase one Standard Vanguard and many others - all cars I remember. But here's one I don't remember although I do remember him talking about it a lot so he must have really treasured it:

View attachment 440430

It was a 6 cylinder MG, which I think was unusual as most were 4 cylinder? Anyway, that's me on the bonnet, probably around 1948/49? I don't remember being there but it must be me because he's written my name on the back with "Mechanical Whizz Kid" as a comment. He must have had second sight! I do remember the spaniel very well, he was the apple of my mother's eye and named "Derry". As I'm getting older I do find myself yearning back for the simpler type of life we lead then.

Edit, PS, just look at those wonderful skinny cross ply tyres, no wonder learning to "drift" was an oft practiced skill in those days.

Its a nice story and photo. Where does all the time go? Nostalgia is nice I bet if that MG was around it'd be a good drive, skinny tyres or not!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

A successful MOT day always feels like a win on the horses to me! So glad it went well.

I'm probably going to do my springs, perhaps imminently. The shocks are supposed to be fairly easy to do, so I await stuffing up my springs lol No doubt you'll change your springs a lot easier than I will.


Its a nice story and photo. Where does all the time go? Nostalgia is nice I bet if that MG was around it'd be a good drive, skinny tyres or not!

Yup, great sense of relief, Mrs J is delighted that "her" car isn't going to be off the road immediately.

Whether these things go "easily" or not when you're working on older cars is purely a matter of luck. One of the wiser old fellows in the workshop, when I was green behind the ears, would say, when you asked him for his opinion on a job, "Well son, it's got two chances, either it will or it won't and you won't know 'till you get on with the job so pick up that bloody spanner, stop wasting my time and get stuck in now!" and you were lucky if you didn't get a clout round the ear'ole to speed you on your way.

Oh yes, I'd love to be able to get behind the wheel of that old MG. I've seen and heard a number of the early midgets T type (TA, TC, TD etc) and all the ones I've encountered had 4 cylinder engines, but I've never heard a 6 cylinder one.

 

[AnthonyH]

Yup, great sense of relief, Mrs J is delighted that "her" car isn't going to be off the road immediately.

I've got the "bad" car that requires all the work, my wife has the "good" car which never gives us a moments trouble. Such is life. I don't argue the point because the GP i've got SORN seemed to growl and snarl at her whenever she got into it

Whether these things go "easily" or not when you're working on older cars is purely a matter of luck. One of the wiser old fellows in the workshop, when I was green behind the ears, would say, when you asked him for his opinion on a job, "Well son, it's got two chances, either it will or it won't and you won't know 'till you get on with the job so pick up that bloody spanner, stop wasting my time and get stuck in now!" and you were lucky if you didn't get a clout round the ear'ole to speed you on your way.

I shall remember this, sooner or later it'll get done and I may as well just get on with it.

Oh yes, I'd love to be able to get behind the wheel of that old MG. I've seen and heard a number of the early midgets T type (TA, TC, TD etc) and all the ones I've encountered had 4 cylinder engines, but I've never heard a 6 cylinder one.

My dad had two bright yellow Ford Capris. When his first bright yellow Capri got scrapped he bought another bright yellow Capri. All in he must have had these cars for 10 years or more. His car was easy to spot...

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've got the "bad" car that requires all the work, my wife has the "good" car which never gives us a moments trouble. Such is life. I don't argue the point because the GP i've got SORN seemed to growl and snarl at her whenever she got into it



I shall remember this, sooner or later it'll get done and I may as well just get on with it.



My dad had two bright yellow Ford Capris. When his first bright yellow Capri got scrapped he bought another bright yellow Capri. All in he must have had these cars for 10 years or more. His car was easy to spot...

View attachment 440436

Our Cordoba estate was bright yellow "Bengal yellow" - you can just see it behind "Felicity" the purple Panda in my avatar picture. Mrs J loved it and we never lost it in a car park ever.

 

[AnthonyH]

Our Cordoba estate was bright yellow "Bengal yellow" - you can just see it behind "Felicity" the purple Panda in my avatar picture. Mrs J loved it and we never lost it in a car park ever.

Cool!

Both of his were Canary yellow. I had a look at some pictures of the engine, took me back a long time!

I'll be away tomorrow (in the better behaved car).

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Cool!

Both of his were Canary yellow. I had a look at some pictures of the engine, took me back a long time!

I'll be away tomorrow (in the better behaved car).

Us too. Spending the day at my brother's house trying to get more "stuff" sorted out. around a 70 mile round trip of mixed city and country road driving but that'll be good because it'll get a few more miles of mixed driving on the new car to help run it in.