OP
OP
Incredible really that you have only taken this from my argument.
Last edited:
Raise Driving Min Age to 21
- Thread starter Magic Johnson
- Start date
Currently reading:
Raise Driving Min Age to 21
Incredible really that you have only taken this from my argument.
Why incredible?
Your argument was that under 21's shouldn't be allowed to drive because they have too many accidents, and the reason for this is because they are incapable in your opinion. The "proof" that this is the reason for the accidents was because at that age by your own admission you were a liability on the roads at that age. Therefore all under 21's must be the same.
My argument is that most under 21's don't kill themselves on the roads, and most under 21's aren't a self-confessed liability on the roads. You were not therefore a typical under 21, and from the starting point that you had you are not well placed to make this judgement. I.E you may have improved your attitude to driving, but you had more improving to do!
70 years ago 19 year olds were flying and navigating planes and being shot at.
Have we regressed so far that now only 21's and over are capable of driving a car?
It could be that with the type of roads overall Scotland has a particular problem in this respect
By all means we should look closely at the type of vehicle, whether passengers should be allowed to be carried etc., but driving a car is not just fun, it is to hundreds of thousands a means of getting to college or work , and why should the misadventure or stupidity of a relatively small number damage the prospects of a whole generation?
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,219
- Points
- 3,671
The way we communicate nowadays, certainly is clever & to the point. Forums in one way or another form the obvious base for information, tips, hints & all things car related, & in this case obviously Fiat. It doesn't need a genius to work out, that only a small part of this & other car forums really dwell on the workings of an engine & the problems that entail, other topics are more to the fore.
My point is simply, as usual the OP has been lost in some taking things to a personal level. First of all the question, should 21 be the new 17. Short answer has to be no. Too much would have to be changed is the very short answer.
I'm not anti young or old drivers, but one thing that does come up more than often on here, is the drivers who were 17 or there about, who drove like loons, but a few years down the line, they drive fine now.......
So much can be taken from these comments.............
Again I mention the post code lottery. You really have to weigh up what's what in motoring problems in your area. I can only point out what I see in real terms in my neck of the woods. So in truth what can we expect in the future? Well to be honest, as long as we motorists keep footing the bill not much soon...........
My point is simply, as usual the OP has been lost in some taking things to a personal level. First of all the question, should 21 be the new 17. Short answer has to be no. Too much would have to be changed is the very short answer.
I'm not anti young or old drivers, but one thing that does come up more than often on here, is the drivers who were 17 or there about, who drove like loons, but a few years down the line, they drive fine now.......
So much can be taken from these comments.............Again I mention the post code lottery. You really have to weigh up what's what in motoring problems in your area. I can only point out what I see in real terms in my neck of the woods. So in truth what can we expect in the future? Well to be honest, as long as we motorists keep footing the bill not much soon...........
Ridiculous thread is ridiculous.
You move the driving age back, you move the majority of inexperienced drivers into the new age group, who when they pass still don't realise how dangerous it can be. But it's exciting and the exact same thing that blights the 17 year olds blights 21 year olds.
I could say "ban all BMWs" because they are driven by aggressive c*cks who drive as such, causing other road users problems. But it's the minority who screw up the image of the majority.
As a young driver though, who's observed others the thread title would be more appropriate as "Revoke licenses at the age of 70"
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_messenger/news/2011/october/3/death_crash_oap_spared_prison.aspx
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co...8954288.Horror_as_OAP_drives_wrong_way_on_M6/
You will not see stories like this often for young drivers. I can pick these OAP stories out all day. Incompitance to me is more worrying than idiocy.
You move the driving age back, you move the majority of inexperienced drivers into the new age group, who when they pass still don't realise how dangerous it can be. But it's exciting and the exact same thing that blights the 17 year olds blights 21 year olds.
I could say "ban all BMWs" because they are driven by aggressive c*cks who drive as such, causing other road users problems. But it's the minority who screw up the image of the majority.
As a young driver though, who's observed others the thread title would be more appropriate as "Revoke licenses at the age of 70"
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_messenger/news/2011/october/3/death_crash_oap_spared_prison.aspx
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co...8954288.Horror_as_OAP_drives_wrong_way_on_M6/
You will not see stories like this often for young drivers. I can pick these OAP stories out all day. Incompitance to me is more worrying than idiocy.
Which planet do you live on? It took a few seconds to find these two crashes - teenage drivers in single car collisions. There are hundreds of others showing teenage drivers being every bit as stupid as very elderly drivers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-13660113
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...ed-car-crash/story-13564969-detail/story.html
If you look at the statistics drivers from 16 to 20 are 4.7% of all drivers. Drivers 70 and over are 7.7% of all drivers.
The figures for collisions are collected in a slightly different age grouping. The collision figures for drivers from 16 to 19 show 13,798 collisions in 2010, for 70 plus it shows 10,465. More older drivers but a lot less accidents and that is without the 20 year old drivers. You actually have to be 75 before you become, on average, as dangerous as a teenage driver.
the figures don't take into account the fact that young driver accidents tend to be at a much higher speed than older drivers, resulting in more injuries. It is also worth noting that, of those who are caught, hit and run drivers are 4 times more likely to be teenage male than any other age group or gender - including teenage female drivers.
Regarding the difference between young and old drivers-
Who is the greater threat/risk?
Somebody who drives badly because they don't know better, as in younger drivers?
OR
Somebody whose comprehension,reactions and overall demeanour prevents them from driving well, as in old drivers?
Who is the greater threat/risk?
Somebody who drives badly because they don't know better, as in younger drivers?
OR
Somebody whose comprehension,reactions and overall demeanour prevents them from driving well, as in old drivers?
i think the age should be 18 , however the legal age to drink alcohol should be increased to 21 maybe this would have an effect. if theyre caught driving recklessly then should be banned for a minimum of 3 years.
also statistics dont really mean squat. each individual case will be different. someone in a hit and run situation, will no doubt have to claim on there own insurance through no fault of there own.
also statistics dont really mean squat. each individual case will be different. someone in a hit and run situation, will no doubt have to claim on there own insurance through no fault of there own.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Cracking debate this, aside from a few select morons it's been pretty interesting to get all the different views.
http://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/l...y_to_taking_mum_s_car_for_a_joyride_1_3137262
The driver hasn't even passed his test yet (and won't be for quite a few years to come). The passenger has only just passed. Just prior to the smash their mates got a text saying they were doing 120mph. This was national speed limit down to 40 then 30 and a dogleg roundabout then a straight 30 to a set of lights and another 30 to this roundabout.
In this case, I would say they were both idiotic AND incompetent.
Whilst there may be a few OAP crash stories around the web, I wonder just how many OAPs crash their cars because of the actions of idiots sitting right on their tails goading them to go faster?
I'm an experienced driver - sit on my tail I let off the go faster pedal, sit on my wife's tail and she gets VERY nervous and worried.
You only have to watch the morons on the motorway, doing 70+ within yards of the vehicle in front (Cars, lorries, coaches !)
i wanna be a select moron for 1 second
**** THAT!!! THE LITTLE PRICKS ****ED MY HOUSE!!! THROW AWAY THE KEY OR LET ME THE **** AT 'EM!!
**** THAT!!! THE LITTLE PRICKS ****ED MY HOUSE!!! THROW AWAY THE KEY OR LET ME THE **** AT 'EM!!
:yeahthat:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9043121.Pensioner_drove_wrong_way_down_motorway/
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Pens...torway-crash/story-11285564-detail/story.html
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...driving-wrong-way-up-motorway-86908-20407887/
I'm afraid that if someone fails to grasp the fundamentals of driving to the extent that they drive the wrong way up a motorway then they are far too dangerous to be on the road.
A young and ineperienced driver has the oportunity to improve and to learn whereas when an older driver reached the point that they can't grasp the concept of a roundabout nothing can be done other than to ban them for life.
A few years ago, on one of those traffic cops type programmes, a Gwent traffic car was sitting on a motorway RAB when an old boy came off the sliproad and turned RIGHT onto the roundabout against the flow of traffic, the traffic officers simply stopped the traffic, turned the old boy around and gave him directions, not so much as an informal warning. If that isn't driving without care I don't know what is.
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Pens...torway-crash/story-11285564-detail/story.html
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...driving-wrong-way-up-motorway-86908-20407887/
I'm afraid that if someone fails to grasp the fundamentals of driving to the extent that they drive the wrong way up a motorway then they are far too dangerous to be on the road.
A young and ineperienced driver has the oportunity to improve and to learn whereas when an older driver reached the point that they can't grasp the concept of a roundabout nothing can be done other than to ban them for life.
A few years ago, on one of those traffic cops type programmes, a Gwent traffic car was sitting on a motorway RAB when an old boy came off the sliproad and turned RIGHT onto the roundabout against the flow of traffic, the traffic officers simply stopped the traffic, turned the old boy around and gave him directions, not so much as an informal warning. If that isn't driving without care I don't know what is.
Maybe you cannot read? All the OAP stories are people going the wrong way up a motorway (incompitence) and killing others. Yeah these young drivers were stupid (idiocy) but hurt no one else. Hence why I said idiocy is less of a threat than incompitence, and I still stand by my statement of you never seeing young drivers causing crashes like old people. All you've done with these links is prove my point. Thank you.
If an accident resulting from the combination of stupidity and incompetence of young drivers does not cause harm to others, this is by sheer blind luck alone. To suggest otherwise is frankly moronic. Read this (first hit that google brought up when I searched - there are lots):
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/five_dead_as_cars_crash_1_219583
I was there. I saw the crash. I saw the cnuts that caused the accident. I can confirm that they were indeed racing. I saw the Sierra leave the ground on a humpback bridge and its underside slam into the Megane. I saw that they were young. I saw that they were all dead afterwards. I saw the two dead children in the Megane. I know the family. I saw and still see the devastation.
If you think young drivers only hurt themselves in accidents, then you are well and truly retarded. Go away, you're making me angry.
OP
OP
I think you've all answered your own question.
That worked beautifully.
I fail to see incompitence. Yes it is a tragic story, and it is a horrible thing to happen, but again this falls into idiocy. And move the driving age back, this same idiocy would happen later on.
This thread is making me angry. It is singling out young drivers as the sole cause of the problem. Just yesterday I saw an RS4 disappear along a dual carriageway, by the time he was gone and the speed he was still disappearing at, I'd say he was topping 140. He must have been at least 30, but my original point stands...give anyone a car, they can cause as much damage through inexperience. I bet it was a new car for him, so he wanted to try it out, just like young drivers do.
Had the same situation happened in the post you linked with the guy in the RS4, there wouldn't have been half the drama as he wasn't a "young driver." I don't mean this disrespectfully, I mean it as in, the media wouldn't have bit into it quite so much, because unless it's a young driver, its just another accident.
You'll get idiots in every age group; the solution in my eyes isn't to single out any group, it is to educate them before they begin...the driving test is p#ss easy atm, so why not make it harder? And in school I got a talk on road safety; they brought along a car from a fatal crash, and pictures from the scene, along with CCTV of the accident. People cried when the mother of the driver came in and talked, it was heartbreaking. It is the reason why alot of us don't speed. Why not do this to every new driver? That talk will stick with me for the rest of my life, and make me a better driver for it.
OP
OP
No it's not.
Argument = raising the driving age to 21 would take the most high risk group of drivers off the road, thus leaving it a safer place. This certainly isn't to say everyone over 21 is immaculate, you are right, idiocy and incompetence is rife right through the age range, however in my opinion the risk would be far less severe if this rule was applied.
