Puzzled - Why are churches allowed to discriminate?

[jnoiles]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8476862.stm

Churches have warned new equality laws could force them to go against their faith when hiring staff.
They say the Equality Bill may force them to employ sexually active gay people and transsexuals when hiring staff other than priests or ministers.

Can anyone explain to me why the church should get special dispensation to discriminate against people?

 

[volxstu]

I think that what they are saying is obvious (i havnt read the article). Their religion doesnt condone homosexuality but they are bound to sticking to the law. If the law states that an organisation legally has to employ sexually active gay people then they are faced with a catch 22 situation. Break the law or go against their faith.

 

[popsprocket]

I didn't read the article either but if that's the gist of it then it comes down to what stu says. By breaking the law they open themselves up to expensive law suits. But if they comply with it, then they are effectively admitting that they are wrong about it being unholy to be homosexual or otherwise - and that is why they don't want to comply and I daresay rarely have.

 

[MissR]

I don't see the problem with it. If people aren't in line with the faith then they can't possibly be good at the job. Its like hiring a stripper who doesn't believe in taking her clothes off.
(can't really think of a better comparison without getting into a race/religion debate etc!)

 

[popsprocket]

I don't see the problem with it. If people aren't in line with the faith then they can't possibly be good at the job. Its like hiring a stripper who doesn't believe in taking her clothes off.
(can't really think of a better comparison without getting into a race/religion debate etc!)

Actually, I agree with this.

I think they're probably lucky for the most part in that they don't get people from other faiths applying for jobs since they have no interest (or perhaps hate the idea) of working for a different church.

However it can still be said that a homosexual could be a devout [faith] and perform well in the position that they are hired for even though the church would deem them unholy.

 

[volxstu]

Religion used to be the law now in modern times religion and law have become two seperate entities. There will always be x-overs in opinion between the 2.

 

[popsprocket]

True, but it is NOT the law anymore because not enough people apply it to themselves as a set of laws, which is why there is a justice system - because it applies to everyone, not just the believers.

 

[jnoiles]

True, but it is NOT the law anymore because not enough people apply it to themselves as a set of laws, which is why there is a justice system - because it applies to everyone, not just the believers.

This is what puzzles me. The church dont agree with homosexuality, well ok, thats their opinion. But I can't see how 'we dont like them' is a reason for them to be allowed, by law, to openly deny them employment. How is this any different to an employer saying their corporate charter says they think black people or ginger people or asian people are evil and therfore they should be allowed to discriminate against them when hiring. The law should be the law. For everyone.

 

[popsprocket]

Okay, I read the article now.

If the world is expected to keep up with changes in society such as equality, why is the church exempt?

It's quite ridiculous that in such an age they are allowed to deny jobs to those they deem unsuitable to the position based on gender or sexual preference. The church(es) have been officially outmoded by the modern world, it is time they kept up and stopped proving all the points I make in debates over religion.

 

[Jai]

The law should be the law. For everyone.

, excuse me while i stuff my busted guts back in again....

 

[popsprocket]

, excuse me while i stuff my busted guts back in again....

To be fair, he said should.

Really it should be, but that's not how it works and well all know that. The law serves those with the money to make it.

Ever wonder why governments don't ban cigarettes? The cigarette companies can throw too much money at them to make the problem go away.

 

[jnoiles]

Yeah, I knew you'd get a giggle out of the law should be the law Jai, but come on. This is just silly. Blatant idiocy. Lobbying for the right for your group to discriminate is wrong on a pretty basic level.

A few months ago a copper got off a speeding ticket and the whole world went mental screaming 'one law for them, one for us' when it was no such thing. This is someone actively campaigning to have one law for us and another for them! And it's ok because it's the church? Wtf is that all about?

 

[dave]

I think that what they are saying is obvious (i havnt read the article). Their religion doesnt condone homosexuality but they are bound to sticking to the law. If the law states that an organisation legally has to employ sexually active gay people then they are faced with a catch 22 situation. Break the law or go against their faith.

their faith also says they should forgive sinners, so if they think its a sin they should forgive them and give them a job

 

[MissR]

their faith also says they should forgive sinners, so if they think its a sin they should forgive them and give them a job

But unless they repent and go back to being straight etc then they actually still be sinning... (not that I think they should have to!)

 

[volxstu]

It says forgive them not give em a job
There has to be a point at which the church has to say enough is enough. Would it be seen as negative discrimination to not appoint a Buddhist as a priest.

 

[Munkul]

so its people with this sort of attitude that makes this country one of the most liberal (and sh!te) countries in the world.

Regardless of what you believe in, you should be able to carry out your beliefs without hindrance as long as it doesnt cause hurt or offence to others. (its a fundamental human right).
So say i was a clergy who believed that homosexuality was wrong, why should i have to go against my beliefs to employ a gay assistant? Refusing the job to him is like refusing a pilot's licence to a blind person - they are simply "not suitable for the role" :bang::bang::bang:

 

[dave]

why would a gay person not be able to keep church yard in order or clean the church and so on?

 

[The Beard]

As I understand it, the church isn't trying to avoid people of certain ethnic origins, or in a particular age group. Nor do they want dispensation to avoid employing anyone with a disability, such as blindness, deafness or loss of limb.

I can't see much wrong with the Church wanting to avoid having people working for them who may not be able to do their job properly because their personal beliefs are at odds with their prospective employer.

Would Peter Tatchell be the right man to head up the Church of England's PR department?

How about Radovan Karadic for the head of the Catholic Church's Refugee Council?

I wouldn't condone anybody being prevented from taking up a position as, for instance an accountant or lawyer because he/she is gay, but there are some roles that that person wouldn't be suitable for because of a conflict of interest, and in that case I think it is appropriate.

 

[hmallett]

The law should be the law. For everyone.

Religion came before law...

 

[volxstu]

That is what i meant when commenting that religion used to be the law. Didnt CofE pass our laws when the system was first put in place.