Only for polishing "nutters"...wetsanding.

[Ninja59]

I have not posted in a long time but there are some familiar faces and some of you will know my recent exploits!...

Dealing with scratches and etching is always an annoying process for many, but it can resolved even on soft paint or medium paint with care.

Overall the car in question (my mums) featured some of the above, one was reduced - a severe scratch, resolved another completely and sorted some etching (which I forgot to take a picture of totally) and other issues all with 2000,2500 followed by 3000 and polished with Menzerna 203S and 85RD (owing to some respray work the more aggressive 203S (harder medium hardness paint from a Volvo approved bodyshop) was needed to refine in places where 85RD would suit others with original paint (soft paint) on a mixture of 3M blue (finishing) and yellow (polishing) pads on rotary polisher.

A random picture following 2500 just to show what any owner would generally be bricking "what are you doing!" this was my mum following me saying don't look at the car....I followed up with 3000, and 203S on yellow. I will save the picture for the end. :devil:

Next scratch pretty much full length of the roof.

Forgot to picture the 2000 step in the next series of the longest most severe scratch.

Tried 85RD on blue not much affect, 203S on yellow resolved it.

Massive reduction in the depth of it some of it is very deep and to risky in my view to chase.

For instance:

I may add some clear to it to be proud over a reasonable period till ready, sand and polish back.

A nice clear finish though...

The next scratch opposite side

Following 2000 missed 2500 picture the clouds were gathering.

3000

Following 85RD

No scratch

In progress on some etching

which was improved, same process.

All surfaces then reprotected with Zaino Clear Seal and Z6 combination.

Just to prove what the first picture turned into!

My finger is where the scratch was, now nothing more than a minor clear coat defect.

I will say now though this is not for the faint hearted.

I now have the rest of the car to do via rotary every panel and some more scratches to deal with.

 

[Reuuk]

S1M0 has recently been doing some of this and I was also 'what are you doing!!' haha.

I wouldn't mind giving it a go one day. but on a scrap panel that isn't going to be needed any more haha

 

[Punto Sutty]

Your brave flatting scratches on old paint work! If your using the 3m polishing system start with fast cut plus and the green mop following with yellow top/mop and blue top/mop. Also doing it this way means you can finish flatting in p2000s. Are you using a block to flat?

 

[staffordmike]

That looks scary! I've flatted paint in the past after spraying and before T-cutting with decent enough results but "sanding out" scratches just seems like it'll make the paint too thin, though I'm no expert.

 

[Ninja59]

Your brave flatting scratches on old paint work! If your using the 3m polishing system start with fast cut plus and the green mop following with yellow top/mop and blue top/mop. Also doing it this way means you can finish flatting in p2000s. Are you using a block to flat?

Not really if you PTG it first, have already done quite a few years of polishing and know the history of the car where it was resprayed, and a test section as well as taking plenty of time.

As I said in my original post I am not using the full 3m system. Furthermore, you would never ever take the green compounding pad and FCP on to soft paint as it will remove to much paint and is completely unnecessary as it is far to aggressive. Only really for very hard paints mainly German car paints.

In regards to yellow on this paint it is far to aggressive combination for soft paint like Italian or Japanese paint. In regards to this Volvo paint is middle ground and the worst of defects can be resolved with this middle ground

The softest type with the blue pad is for refining, although to prove a point I have virtually corrected my MX5 with super soft paint using a 3m blue and 85RD which was suffering with some quite severe swirls at most it needs a light polish on yellow and a middle level polish.

You are going far to aggressive in doing what you suggest you should be starting with the lowest cut and highest gloss polish with the least aggressive pad. In doing what you suggest you are wasting time, taking greater risk and removing more clearcoat than is necessary, and also because of the polishing compounds involved no doubt causing more cleaning up for you to do (I am sure Andy Monty will back my approach on this - i.e. starting with the least aggressive combination going and for me this corrected soft paint!)

In addition I was using a sanding block (megs), also to add to this I have experience of proof that doing wet sanding V compounding (your green pad and FCP) the wet sanding actually removed less microns than compounding from memory doing it via compounding was 20 microns doing it via wetsanding was around 11 microns.

And further to this this is backed up in the fact I removed those P3000 scratches with a light polish. Overall this result was far cleaner and easier.

That looks scary! I've flatted paint in the past after spraying and before T-cutting with decent enough results but "sanding out" scratches just seems like it'll make the paint too thin, though I'm no expert.

It is all down to required time - firstly preparing your tools, getting the required information (PTG thickness). secondly taping up correctly, and no just working just the scratch you want to work outwards either side of the scratch to stop a slope from developing, then continue as you go up the grades refining it.

 

[Punto Sutty]

Not really if you PTG it first, have already done quite a few years of polishing and know the history of the car where it was resprayed, and a test section as well as taking plenty of time.

As I said in my original post I am not using the full 3m system. Furthermore, you would never ever take the green compounding pad and FCP on to soft paint as it will remove to much paint and is completely unnecessary as it is far to aggressive. Only really for very hard paints mainly German car paints.

In regards to yellow on this paint it is far to aggressive combination for soft paint like Italian or Japanese paint. In regards to this Volvo paint is middle ground and the worst of defects can be resolved with this middle ground

The softest type with the blue pad is for refining, although to prove a point I have virtually corrected my MX5 with super soft paint using a 3m blue and 85RD which was suffering with some quite severe swirls at most it needs a light polish on yellow and a middle level polish.

You are going far to aggressive in doing what you suggest you should be starting with the lowest cut and highest gloss polish with the least aggressive pad. In doing what you suggest you are wasting time, taking greater risk and removing more clearcoat than is necessary, and also because of the polishing compounds involved no doubt causing more cleaning up for you to do (I am sure Andy Monty will back my approach on this - i.e. starting with the least aggressive combination going and for me this corrected soft paint!)

In addition I was using a sanding block (megs), also to add to this I have experience of proof that doing wet sanding V compounding (your green pad and FCP) the wet sanding actually removed less microns than compounding from memory doing it via compounding was 20 microns doing it via wetsanding was around 11 microns.

And further to this this is backed up in the fact I removed those P3000 scratches with a light polish. Overall this result was far cleaner and easier.



It is all down to required time - firstly preparing your tools, getting the required information (PTG thickness). secondly taping up correctly, and no just working just the scratch you want to work outwards either side of the scratch to stop a slope from developing, then continue as you go up the grades refining it.

Fair enough if you have an idea of the history of the paint work but I would still say brave unless you know inside out how that particular painter paints. Every single one has little querks which affect their paint work. I've had the mis fortune of finding out the hard way a number of times.

I wouldn't say the 3m system is that aggressive especially for any fully cured paint. I've polished flatted newly painted pannels that have only been out of the oven for 30 mins and have never had a problem. For a full polish and a car I'd say 3m fast cut is the minimum you should start with. If you have they time to play about starting with the least aggressive then fair enough but I'd class that as wasting time unless your working on top of the range prestige cars. As for German paints that's just enamel laquer which most cars have the option of. Very few cars on the road are 100% factory paint so your point of different softness of paints is limited. The paint on any given pannel
could be from any manufactures paint scheme. I've lost count of the number of brand new cars under 1 month old I've worked on, even cars that haven't set foot on a dealer forecourt let alone been sold.

At the end of the day everyone has their own preference as to what works best for them, which is the most important thing. So if your way works for you then fair play. Im a qualified painter with plenty of experience and I specialise by doing a lot of exterior detailing work, both for my employer and my own side business so I have a pretty good idea what I'm talkng about.

Sutty

 

[Ninja59]

Not really if you know the type and the depth of the paint involved you can sensibly gauge how aggressive you should be and also is the purpose of measuring depth and assessing issues before machining.

You are an utter idiot frankly if you take FCP and green pad to a car with soft paint that is thin (for example my MX only has 95 microns for everything!), it is overly aggressive (removing extra microns that were not needing to be removed) and totally creates more work for yourself as I say I corrected soft paint removing the least amount of paint possible in the minimum amount of steps.

It wastes time from your point of view because I can do a small test section try said combination in reasonable safety where as you then have to run round the car at least three times in a three stage machine polish. I can do mine in one step.

So you class it as wasting time but not on a prestige car? So what if I care for my car because it is my pride and joy, double standards forget that. Just because it is another car to you that is irrelevant a car to some people is their pride and joy I could not give a toss if it had a Ferrari or Fiat badge on they should be respected the same.

What has all cars not being 100% factory paint got to do with it? Some cars correct because of soft paint very easily owing to the nature of the clearcoat being so soft.

It does not matter if you are a qualified painter or not I have seen so many shocking bodyshop finishes with polish it is hilarious. I also know plenty of ex bodyshop guys and some current ones and guess what they don't start out with the most aggressive combination going. And further to this I ended up last time I visited teaching a bodyshop fruitcake how to machine polish!

All achieved in one step with one extended hit...least aggressive combination going on a 3m blue and finishing polish...

 

[Punto Sutty]

Not really if you know the type and the depth of the paint involved you can sensibly gauge how aggressive you should be and also is the purpose of measuring depth and assessing issues before machining.

You are an utter idiot frankly if you take FCP and green pad to a car with soft paint that is thin (for example my MX only has 95 microns for everything!), it is overly aggressive (removing extra microns that were not needing to be removed) and totally creates more work for yourself as I say I corrected soft paint removing the least amount of paint possible in the minimum amount of steps.

It wastes time from your point of view because I can do a small test section try said combination in reasonable safety where as you then have to run round the car at least three times in a three stage machine polish. I can do mine in one step.

So you class it as wasting time but not on a prestige car? So what if I care for my car because it is my pride and joy, double standards forget that. Just because it is another car to you that is irrelevant a car to some people is their pride and joy I could not give a toss if it had a Ferrari or Fiat badge on they should be respected the same.

What has all cars not being 100% factory paint got to do with it? Some cars correct because of soft paint very easily owing to the nature of the clearcoat being so soft.

It does not matter if you are a qualified painter or not I have seen so many shocking bodyshop finishes with polish it is hilarious. I also know plenty of ex bodyshop guys and some current ones and guess what they don't start out with the most aggressive combination going. And further to this I ended up last time I visited teaching a bodyshop fruitcake how to machine polish!

All achieved in one step with one extended hit...least aggressive combination going on a 3m blue and finishing polish...

I'd say it's a fine balance between the paints thickness and the work your carrying out. It obviously depends on the paint defect your trying to rectify, there's a big difference in removing scratches and restoring loss of gloss. Reading back my comment may have come across wrong as I generalised abit. I haven't got the time of to go through every possible scenario. Each and every buff job is different and takes a different approach to rectify.

Once again no matter how soft or hard the paint is it's all down to the problem your rectifying which defines your approach. So yes in some cases fast cut would be used on soft paint and no that doesn't make me an idiot. It makes me someone who with the right tools in his hand can fix the problem. I wouldn't have to run around the car 3 times as I would never get further than the pannel I started on. Also each pannel may require a different approach due to its own defects if any.

No no and no. Never said I treated any cars differenty. I treat every single vehicle I work on the same and give each one the same amount of attention and level of professionalism. I take great pride in my work and do my utmost to restore it to a new factory finish. I drive a fiat punto mk2b so cast your own assumptions on my snobby attitude to vehicles. My point was referring to the substrate under the paint as using less aggressive polishing techniques generates less heat and is less likely to warp and top end pannels which are made from materials such as carbon fibre.

Obviously if a car is not 100% factory finish then the paint thickness and quality will vary from pannel to pannel. A human sprays a pannel very differently than a robot and cannot do it to such a consistent standard. Also non factory paint may not be to the same standard of quality as factory applied as it varys from scheme to scheme.

I agree with the standard of some bodyshop workers it's shocking. The one I started at is terrible and I wouldn't dare take my vehicle or advise anyone else to either. I'm slowly but surly working my way up the ladder to the top. Not too far now either! Once again it's easy to generalise on here but each job is different and requires a different approach.

I'm sure if we spoke face to face it would be easier to explain all the details of polishing but we would be writing forever on here, there's just too much to say!

Out of interest in what line of work do you do your polishing?

 

[Ninja59]

I'd say it's a fine balance between the paints thickness and the work your carrying out. It obviously depends on the paint defect your trying to rectify, there's a big difference in removing scratches and restoring loss of gloss. Reading back my comment may have come across wrong as I generalised abit. I haven't got the time of to go through every possible scenario. Each and every buff job is different and takes a different approach to rectify.

Once again no matter how soft or hard the paint is it's all down to the problem your rectifying which defines your approach. So yes in some cases fast cut would be used on soft paint and no that doesn't make me an idiot. It makes me someone who with the right tools in his hand can fix the problem. I wouldn't have to run around the car 3 times as I would never get further than the pannel I started on. Also each pannel may require a different approach due to its own defects if any.

No no and no. Never said I treated any cars differenty. I treat every single vehicle I work on the same and give each one the same amount of attention and level of professionalism. I take great pride in my work and do my utmost to restore it to a new factory finish. I drive a fiat punto mk2b so cast your own assumptions on my snobby attitude to vehicles.

Obviously if a car is not 100% factory finish then the paint thickness and quality will vary from pannel to pannel. A human sprays a pannel very differently than a robot and cannot do it to such a consistent standard. Also non factory paint may not be to the same standard of quality as factory applied as it varys from scheme to scheme.

I agree with the standard of some bodyshop workers it's shocking. The one I started at is terrible and I wouldn't dare take my vehicle or advise anyone else to either. I'm slowly but surly working my way up the ladder to the top. Not too far now either! Once again it's easy to generalise on here but each job is different and requires a different approach.

I'm sure if we spoke face to face it would be easier to explain all the details of polishing but we would be writing forever on here, there's just too much to say!

Out of interest in what line of work do you do your polishing?

Sorry, but you put a clear statement it is hard to go back on that one saying you would start out with FCP on a full polish (which implies all cars).

I never said it would be totally unsuitable to use FCP on soft paint at any point like you attempt to imply.

But your does comment says to start out with FCP which is frankly silly that is like going balls deep without your swimming trunks and finding out she has an STD.

You need to asses the issues I agree, but that does not ever mean starting out with the most aggressive combination going, doing a test section a moving up the grades is sensible you can never guarantee even the same car with the same paint painted in the same day is the same or even the temperature in which you are working. Hence your original statement frankly does make unfortunately sound as to make you "an idiot".

You would to do a full machine polish finish you would have to go around the whole car three times as FCP (as by your statement to start out with FCP on a full polish which is rather obviously overkill in many cases) as FCP introduces huge amounts of it's own issues in the clearcoat (mostly its own marring) which then needs refining with a middle ground polish, for which the gloss can be enhanced by a finishing polish. This also hides the fact that Fast Cut Plus is an awful compounding product in comparison with some from Scholl it has been left in the dark ages.

It is not difficult to write either here you go:

"Following assessment and checking paint thickness at various, start out with a finishing polish and pad, if this does not remove the defects then move onto a refining polish and finishing pad.

If either of these fail step it up to a polishing pad and finishing polish (oddly yes I have found this one to work as well), then from there polishing pad and refining polish. However to restore gloss it would require a finishing polish and finishing pad.

If that fails to remove the defects then go to compounding pad and refining polish, and then replace this with a compound and the pad if that fails. It will then need refining and a finishing polish.

You need to ensure you keep the pads free from built up polish and ensure that you assess the work carried out at every stage and remove any oils the polishes carry with panel wipe or similar."

Not really overly difficult to work up the stages and in practice on a test section can be done very quickly. If each panel god forbid is different that is life a small test section takes minutes to workout your approach. I have never had a car personally that bad, but I know a local professional who has Ferrari 308 every panel different, took him ages to do but the results were stunning and worth the test section.

Unfortunately your earlier posts say anything but that:
""If you have they time to play about starting with the least aggressive then fair enough but I'd class that as wasting time unless your working on top of the range prestige cars"

This implies double standards as you would on a prestige car do a test section, but not on a "normal" car in doing a test (and if going by your original statement this also seeks to backup starting with FCP). Don't bring your own car into this as everyone treats their own slightly differently in my view.

I know that nothing exactly "new" in that information for example hence why as above states in the original post the treatment was ever so slightly different (203S rather than 85RD to remove 3000 grit marks the respray clearcoat is slightly harder to work with nothing I have not experienced before and not unexpected as it was done by my favourite bodyshop that mostly work on Jag's and Volvo's with harder clearcoats).

It is not really writing forever it is quite easy in the majority of circumstances with a keen eye to spot issues a mile off, but you cannot say the paint will definitely react like this and that which is why your original statement has been hooked on for a word by me because the attitude taken to start out with FCP is frankly a bit unprofessional even if assessed because you cannot guarantee a paint system reacting exactly the same variables are huge.

I know one former bodyshop sprayer that had worked his way up from a panel beater gone professional detailer that would of frankly of written you off with a general statement like that.

 

[Punto Sutty]

Sorry, but you put a clear statement it is hard to go back on that one saying you would start out with FCP on a full polish (which implies all cars).

I never said it would be totally unsuitable to use FCP on soft paint at any point like you attempt to imply.

But your does comment says to start out with FCP which is frankly silly that is like going balls deep without your swimming trunks and finding out she has an STD.

You need to asses the issues I agree, but that does not ever mean starting out with the most aggressive combination going, doing a test section a moving up the grades is sensible you can never guarantee even the same car with the same paint painted in the same day is the same or even the temperature in which you are working. Hence your original statement frankly does make unfortunately sound as to make you "an idiot".

You would to do a full machine polish finish you would have to go around the whole car three times as FCP (as by your statement to start out with FCP on a full polish which is rather obviously overkill in many cases) as FCP introduces huge amounts of it's own issues in the clearcoat (mostly its own marring) which then needs refining with a middle ground polish, for which the gloss can be enhanced by a finishing polish. This also hides the fact that Fast Cut Plus is an awful compounding product in comparison with some from Scholl it has been left in the dark ages.

It is not difficult to write either here you go:

"Following assessment and checking paint thickness at various, start out with a finishing polish and pad, if this does not remove the defects then move onto a refining polish and finishing pad.

If either of these fail step it up to a polishing pad and finishing polish (oddly yes I have found this one to work as well), then from there polishing pad and refining polish. However to restore gloss it would require a finishing polish and finishing pad.

If that fails to remove the defects then go to compounding pad and refining polish, and then replace this with a compound and the pad if that fails. It will then need refining and a finishing polish.

You need to ensure you keep the pads free from built up polish and ensure that you assess the work carried out at every stage and remove any oils the polishes carry with panel wipe or similar."

Not really overly difficult to work up the stages and in practice on a test section can be done very quickly. If each panel god forbid is different that is life a small test section takes minutes to workout your approach. I have never had a car personally that bad, but I know a local professional who has Ferrari 308 every panel different, took him ages to do but the results were stunning and worth the test section.

Unfortunately your earlier posts say anything but that:
""If you have they time to play about starting with the least aggressive then fair enough but I'd class that as wasting time unless your working on top of the range prestige cars"

This implies double standards as you would on a prestige car do a test section, but not on a "normal" car in doing a test (and if going by your original statement this also seeks to backup starting with FCP). Don't bring your own car into this as everyone treats their own slightly differently in my view.

I know that nothing exactly "new" in that information for example hence why as above states in the original post the treatment was ever so slightly different (203S rather than 85RD to remove 3000 grit marks the respray clearcoat is slightly harder to work with nothing I have not experienced before and not unexpected as it was done by my favourite bodyshop that mostly work on Jag's and Volvo's with harder clearcoats).

It is not really writing forever it is quite easy in the majority of circumstances with a keen eye to spot issues a mile off, but you cannot say the paint will definitely react like this and that which is why your original statement has been hooked on for a word by me because the attitude taken to start out with FCP is frankly a bit unprofessional even if assessed because you cannot guarantee a paint system reacting exactly the same variables are huge.

I know one former bodyshop sprayer that had worked his way up from a panel beater gone professional detailer that would of frankly of written you off with a general statement like that.

I think we have different opinions on where fast cut stands on the aggressive scale. Personally I don't find it that aggressive for general polishing, for me and my techniques it works very well which is why the 3m family of products is my preferred polishing system. There are other products I consider harsher such as G3 range etc. Any issues that arise as the job commences is where experience and talent come in to play. I use a ridiculous amount of products for detailing, too many to list. Once again it's all down to personal preference and I'm happy doing things the way I am. I'm earning decent money and have a list of happy customers as long as my arm. Each to their own I guess! To be honest in some of my points you have marked out I think it's just a case of not explaining myself properly and for me it would take a while to write everything down as I'm on an iPad and don't particularly enjoy typing on it. At the end of the day I think it's best we just agree to disagree as we will be hear till the cows come home! Although if I was ever to meet you I would very happily have a full on chat about this very subject! As for being written off for any statement I know my work speaks volumes.

Sutty

 

[Ninja59]

Hahaha, you don't find it that aggressive? Jeepers, I can tell the bodyshop talk in you definitely. Dear me lord knows what you think of finishing polishes such as Ultrafina and 85RD/RE then. I won't deny there are more aggressive compounds for that type of work, but dear me in the scale of general usage FCP definitely hangs around in the top category that requires refinement after usage because of the amount of marring it produces.

I thought you might bring "G3" up majority of the time I see this out it is only being used for it's cut more than anything and the finish it leaves behind is even worse than FCP.

As with both of these I agree it's a skill but only should only be stepped up to to resolve heavy defects with the understanding that either of them if based on a large amount of cut will require refinement.

You almost are seeking again to go back on your previous statement there is no point turning back on something or doing an assessment if all you are going to do with is grab FCP or worse G3 (I do know and believe G3 has it's place and I know it does however I go back to my point you have to have the understanding that it will inflict it's own damage on the clearcoat when removing heavy defects).

Usage of a large amount of products where does that come from? I have a lot of products (including G3 and FCP) to, but in a vast amount of circumstances (and owing to not having a lot of hard nature paints in the cars I work on) then it barely get out the draw. This does not back up skill or understanding.

Majority of the time I reach for a finishing pad/polish or polishing pad and polish. I have not had to get it out for years I would prefer to do a few hits with a slightly less aggressive polish than deal with the mess FCP can produce sometimes. These days it frankly is a poor compound in my view in comparison with others, it definitely is falling behind and many take issue with the amount of dusting it produces where as many other newer compounds on the market have dealt with it far more clinically than FCP could ever imagine.

If you do want one tip though if using FCP and to stop dusting then put some ultrafina on the edge of the pad and FCP in the centre. This reduces dusting as the UF is highly lubricated (being a finishing polish) and suppresses some of the dusting issues.

In my view you have made yourself very clear in one statement. As for not explaining yourself that is not that difficult.

As for typing on an Ipad I can do that to, I understand typing is annoying but put simply you can put "Start with the least aggressive first working your way through the combinations until you find the least aggressive that gets you to the required finish" for many that simply means removing the swirls.

Another example is having the sense to leave some defects in as some are just to deep to chase more so on thin paint.One comes to mind on the rear deck panel of the MX it is so deep that I have just left it. Does it annoy me? Yes Could it be sorted? Probably with massive amounts of clearcoat removal on thin paint Do I have the sense to leave it? Dam right I do. For the sake of future polishing sessions and also to take reasonable care and skill in ensuring that I don't go through the CC.

 

[Punto Sutty]

Hahaha, you don't find it that aggressive? Jeepers, I can tell the bodyshop talk in you definitely. Dear me lord knows what you think of finishing polishes such as Ultrafina and 85RD/RE then. I won't deny there are more aggressive compounds for that type of work, but dear me in the scale of general usage FCP definitely hangs around in the top category that requires refinement after usage because of the amount of marring it produces.

I thought you might bring "G3" up majority of the time I see this out it is only being used for it's cut more than anything and the finish it leaves behind is even worse than FCP.

As with both of these I agree it's a skill but only should only be stepped up to to resolve heavy defects with the understanding that either of them if based on a large amount of cut will require refinement.


You almost are seeking again to go back on your previous statement there is no point turning back on something or doing an assessment if all you are going to do with is grab FCP or worse G3 (I do know and believe G3 has it's place and I know it does however I go back to my point you have to have the understanding that it will inflict it's own damage on the clearcoat when removing heavy defects).

Usage of a large amount of products where does that come from? I have a lot of products (including G3 and FCP) to, but in a vast amount of circumstances (and owing to not having a lot of hard nature paints in the cars I work on) then it barely get out the draw. This does not back up skill or understanding.

Majority of the time I reach for a finishing pad/polish or polishing pad and polish. I have not had to get it out for years I would prefer to do a few hits with a slightly less aggressive polish than deal with the mess FCP can produce sometimes. These days it frankly is a poor compound in my view in comparison with others, it definitely is falling behind and many take issue with the amount of dusting it produces where as many other newer compounds on the market have dealt with it far more clinically than FCP could ever imagine.

If you do want one tip though if using FCP and to stop dusting then put some ultrafina on the edge of the pad and FCP in the centre. This reduces dusting as the UF is highly lubricated (being a finishing polish) and suppresses some of the dusting issues.

In my view you have made yourself very clear in one statement. As for not explaining yourself that is not that difficult.

As for typing on an Ipad I can do that to, I understand typing is annoying but put simply you can put "Start with the least aggressive first working your way through the combinations until you find the least aggressive that gets you to the required finish" for many that simply means removing the swirls.

Another example is having the sense to leave some defects in as some are just to deep to chase more so on thin paint.One comes to mind on the rear deck panel of the MX it is so deep that I have just left it. Does it annoy me? Yes Could it be sorted? Probably with massive amounts of clearcoat removal on thin paint Do I have the sense to leave it? Dam right I do. For the sake of future polishing sessions and also to take reasonable care and skill in ensuring that I don't go through the CC.

Well I'm bodyshop first detailer second. I'm qualified in the painting part and self taught due to skill, interest and profit In the detailing side. Also both products you mention are ones I use. For the work I do fast cut isn't that aggressive, maby in the grand scheme of things yes but for me no. A lot of the work I do needs it. I find g3 and the range it's in poor and avoid using it if I can although I can get a finish as good as any other product with it if needed without too much extra effort. I'm not going back on any statement as it was generalised with out much specific information. I'm right in what I've said it's just not coupled with a specific example. As for the iPad thing I don't have all the time in the world to explain my self on a device I don't enjoy typing on, it's as simple as that. I've been at work doing similar jobs all day, the last thing I want to do is be thinking about it all night. Don't really know why you talking about leaving scratches etc, it's not really relevant and your not telling me anything I don't already know.

 

[Ninja59]

It is irrelevant how you were taught or what comes first or second. Understanding, technique and selecting suitable measures is skill and time what or how you are taught do not come into that.

FCP "For the work I do is not aggressive" maybe in your initial job no, but in detailing terms will need refining fact without questions owing to marring and introduction of other defects unless you are one of these that leaves that and classes it as "detailing" which is in itself becoming an abused term.

Finish as good as any other, what without using other steps or polishes to refine it?

Yes you are your original statement is in no way generalised it is perfectly clear in what you mean:

"For a full polish and a car I'd say 3m fast cut is the minimum you should start with"

You then went on to say assess it if you assessed it properly you would not need to start with FCP in many cases as it is total overkill for many jobs and requires more work in tidying up hence why many professional detailers avoid it usage and use it sparingly or if doing large scale compounding use polishes like Scholl's range. But you back tracked on that, any proper assessment would allow a test section identifying a suitable combination without starting at the most aggressive first risking greater risks to the paint and increase in clean up time.

I never said you needed a long explanation, mine took less than two lines.

Reason I brought up the scratches is because clearly in so doing you would sacrifice to much clearcoat for a thin paint system which is exactly what you are doing (unnecessarily) in your perfectly clear non generalised statement of how you go about your "detailing".