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General Oh no! Its open season on B's again!
- Thread starter novacustard
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General Oh no! Its open season on B's again!
novacustard
New member
Time for an update and another question.
The second accident, which the third party admitted liability for is being sorted. As it means a new rear bumper, they will have to spray up the sides of the B, meaning that they will need to fettle the earlier dent, which is the subject of a separate claim in which the third party reckons I hit her.
I have told the garage to fix both and will pay the £250 to sort the other dent myself.
So, I have two choices. 1 - inform the third parties insurance company that I have decided not to procede with the claim if the third party also drops her claim against me (remember that there is minmal if any damage to her bumper). or,
2 - carry on with the claim, which relies on my photographic evidence of the damage caused, and a realistic assessment of the location by the insurance companies. The most likely outcome is that the claim will be split 50:50, and i have a £500 excess, so whichever way I'm going to lose as the likelyhood is that the insurance companies won't be arsed about actually looking at the evidence. IMHO!
Any suggestions?
Rich
The second accident, which the third party admitted liability for is being sorted. As it means a new rear bumper, they will have to spray up the sides of the B, meaning that they will need to fettle the earlier dent, which is the subject of a separate claim in which the third party reckons I hit her.
I have told the garage to fix both and will pay the £250 to sort the other dent myself.
So, I have two choices. 1 - inform the third parties insurance company that I have decided not to procede with the claim if the third party also drops her claim against me (remember that there is minmal if any damage to her bumper). or,
2 - carry on with the claim, which relies on my photographic evidence of the damage caused, and a realistic assessment of the location by the insurance companies. The most likely outcome is that the claim will be split 50:50, and i have a £500 excess, so whichever way I'm going to lose as the likelyhood is that the insurance companies won't be arsed about actually looking at the evidence. IMHO!
Any suggestions?
Rich
Interesting position.
I believe the phrase "without prejudice" ( [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_prejudice[/ame] ) is what you are looking for. I'm no legal expert but I beileve you can back off from a position/claim "without prejudice". This leaves options open and also means, more importanly, that you are not trying on some fraudulent or otherwise claim wrigggling tactics.
As I see it the second incident did more damage than the first. The second takes priority. Fixing the second more significant damage, which requires colour blending into the first dent/damage to make the second repair acceptable is a natural non fradulent action to take.
You have chosen to pay £250 to the repairer of the second damage for their extra cost in making their repairs good bearing in mind the first damage.
You are not claiming on the first damage insurer for compensation/costs which the second insurer has picked up or been paid for by you.
To me this is totally ok etc. etc.
What is a little more confusing is the question of "accidents" & "claims" answers to insurance quotes questions.
Two claims and two "no faults" would be much easier to declare and document than "well I was hit twice, but because of the interlinking damage I only made one claim and paid some of my own money, which was less than my excess for a prior accident/claim, that may or may not have been counted against me, if I let the claim cycle run its course".
Sorry that last paragraph reads a little consusingly but I hope you get my drift.
You might consider talking to your insurance company or and independent adviser.
At the ned of the day you have to be absolutely clear in your actions. e.g. drop claim and holding 1st accident party liable and pursue with second ensuring they do not pick up any excess cost due to 1st accident.
This is a damage limitation exercise so whatever you do it should do just that, limit the damage to you and NOT open you up to problems/damages in the future.
Finally, do all negotiatons etc. in writing so that there is a clear indisputable audit trail. If you are told soemthing over the phone then say you will be writing for confirmation in writing. Make that letter, get that confirmation.
Best of luck
I believe the phrase "without prejudice" ( [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_prejudice[/ame] ) is what you are looking for. I'm no legal expert but I beileve you can back off from a position/claim "without prejudice". This leaves options open and also means, more importanly, that you are not trying on some fraudulent or otherwise claim wrigggling tactics.
As I see it the second incident did more damage than the first. The second takes priority. Fixing the second more significant damage, which requires colour blending into the first dent/damage to make the second repair acceptable is a natural non fradulent action to take.
You have chosen to pay £250 to the repairer of the second damage for their extra cost in making their repairs good bearing in mind the first damage.
You are not claiming on the first damage insurer for compensation/costs which the second insurer has picked up or been paid for by you.
To me this is totally ok etc. etc.
What is a little more confusing is the question of "accidents" & "claims" answers to insurance quotes questions.
Two claims and two "no faults" would be much easier to declare and document than "well I was hit twice, but because of the interlinking damage I only made one claim and paid some of my own money, which was less than my excess for a prior accident/claim, that may or may not have been counted against me, if I let the claim cycle run its course".
Sorry that last paragraph reads a little consusingly but I hope you get my drift.
You might consider talking to your insurance company or and independent adviser.
At the ned of the day you have to be absolutely clear in your actions. e.g. drop claim and holding 1st accident party liable and pursue with second ensuring they do not pick up any excess cost due to 1st accident.
This is a damage limitation exercise so whatever you do it should do just that, limit the damage to you and NOT open you up to problems/damages in the future.
Finally, do all negotiatons etc. in writing so that there is a clear indisputable audit trail. If you are told soemthing over the phone then say you will be writing for confirmation in writing. Make that letter, get that confirmation.
Best of luck
Last edited:
novacustard
New member
Many thanks for your reply. It all makes very good sense - and the second repairer is definitely not picking up the costs for the first.
I'm going to talk to my insurer, but frankly, they don't seem to be remotely interested in helping sort it out as I am claiming against a third party. I might be better off banging my head against a wall.
Rich
novacustard
New member
Well, I picked up Tallulah on Friday sporting a shiny new bumper, new fiat badge, lovely coat of paint and straightened dent in the side panel. She looks lovely and they even cleaned her, the hard top and alloys!
Ended up costing me £250 to fix the side dent (from accident no.1) but accident no.2 picked up the rather large tab for the damage to the rear.
I've decided that it really isn't worth my while claiming for the £250 as although its clearly obvious to me that the damage could only have happened if I was backed into, I'm pretty sure that the insurance companies will go for a 50:50 split so I'd end up paying anyway.
Rich
Glad shes sorted. Got any pics? Steve
So there was my other half dreading the possible snow tomorrow and some road incident to add to the bumber damage and keying we have had this year already, thus possibly completing a hatrick of disasters.......
driving along and 'boom' , off side door window explodes!
Bad news is that with the top bowed out shape of the 'B' doors the stressed glass exploding downwards, plus chunks falling down and backwards have made deep paint chips along the top of the door and onto the top of the rear wing / hood area.
Glass insurance excess is £60 and a new piece of glass from Fiat is £135.57 + VAT. So this will be an insurance job. We'll also get the fitter to note on the job sheet the paint damage. We have a £350 excess, but I'm hoping that paint damage caused by broken glass falling onto the paintwork is covered under the £60 excess.
Glass also fell into the door lock mechanism jaming it so trying to remove the internal door lever plate was almost imposible because I could barely depress the locking latch/button.
In the end I had to remove the door jam locking mechanism completely to remove all the glass.
Tomorrow, late pm (6pm-8pm) Mr Autoglass is coming to fit a pieces of glass. I just hope he/she does not break any of those delicate 'B' plastic bit and bobs that often cause 'B' window problems.
Our poor little 'B' seems to be the worst Fiat car we have ever had for cosmetic damage. Our Strada Abarth after 21 years has better original paintwork that the 'B'.
Such is life....but is does hurt!
driving along and 'boom' , off side door window explodes!
Bad news is that with the top bowed out shape of the 'B' doors the stressed glass exploding downwards, plus chunks falling down and backwards have made deep paint chips along the top of the door and onto the top of the rear wing / hood area.
Glass insurance excess is £60 and a new piece of glass from Fiat is £135.57 + VAT. So this will be an insurance job. We'll also get the fitter to note on the job sheet the paint damage. We have a £350 excess, but I'm hoping that paint damage caused by broken glass falling onto the paintwork is covered under the £60 excess.
Glass also fell into the door lock mechanism jaming it so trying to remove the internal door lever plate was almost imposible because I could barely depress the locking latch/button.
In the end I had to remove the door jam locking mechanism completely to remove all the glass.
Tomorrow, late pm (6pm-8pm) Mr Autoglass is coming to fit a pieces of glass. I just hope he/she does not break any of those delicate 'B' plastic bit and bobs that often cause 'B' window problems.
Our poor little 'B' seems to be the worst Fiat car we have ever had for cosmetic damage. Our Strada Abarth after 21 years has better original paintwork that the 'B'.
Such is life....but is does hurt!
paganeli panda
Member
Some guy decided to reverse his Rav4 on to the front of my parked B last week. He was kind enough to leave the scene, but living in a small place someone saw part of his number plate let me know, a friend of a friend type of thing. My insurance guy when I let him know about it said and I quote 'I am an insurance broker I dont know how to find him' ..... keep in mind I had part of the plate, the make, model and colour of the car.
Related the story to a couple of cooworkers and hey presto, one had a sister in law who is a an insurance agent and can do her job and the other had a contact in the local Toyota garage, I got the guy's information and went and found him. He mentioned he left a note which my eye witness denies but he is happy to go through his insurance etc.
Following the hunt I took the car to get the damage appraised... the vody work will cost around 580 euros and an original bumper from FIAT will set me back another 670.
Now what I dont understand and I am curious to see if it is the same around the world is thus: according to the appraiser, because the car is old the insurance company is going to reimburse 86% of the parts' value. Why is that? Does this happen in other countries? Because the car is old it doesnt mean that the bumper was more brittle... the metal body work got crampled too... any ideas on how to deal with this?
Related the story to a couple of cooworkers and hey presto, one had a sister in law who is a an insurance agent and can do her job and the other had a contact in the local Toyota garage, I got the guy's information and went and found him. He mentioned he left a note which my eye witness denies but he is happy to go through his insurance etc.
Following the hunt I took the car to get the damage appraised... the vody work will cost around 580 euros and an original bumper from FIAT will set me back another 670.
Now what I dont understand and I am curious to see if it is the same around the world is thus: according to the appraiser, because the car is old the insurance company is going to reimburse 86% of the parts' value. Why is that? Does this happen in other countries? Because the car is old it doesnt mean that the bumper was more brittle... the metal body work got crampled too... any ideas on how to deal with this?
This does not happen here in the UK.
In fact every accident insurance quote for insurance purposes I have ever seen here in the UK is based on time to do the jobs at hourly rate PLUS parts. Parts possibly needed are listed but actual part cost is never mentioned.
I am a little confused. In the UK there can be a 'betterment' charge applied to accident damage on older vehicles. The insurance company are only liable for the damage and, if repairing the car makes it 'better' than it was before, they can charge for this. I don't know if this applies in all cases but it may explain why the company is withholding 14% of the cost of the parts. Read the small print in your policy.
Steve
Steve
Rustbucket
Established member
Some do some don't. The 'yellow paper' insurance companies Q*inn etc will try this scam..'You have 10 year old car so we're only going to restore it to 'reasonable condition' as it was before the accident.' Insurance is only designed to restore you to the point before the accident unless you have an 'as new policy' or a brand new car..hence the 'betterment' comment in previous.
However most reputable insurers will do a decent job but you have to watch them trying to knock the price down. Plastic welding instead of new parts, spraying panels not the whole vehicle etc and haggling over fair wear and tear on an older vehicle.
However most reputable insurers will do a decent job but you have to watch them trying to knock the price down. Plastic welding instead of new parts, spraying panels not the whole vehicle etc and haggling over fair wear and tear on an older vehicle.
last time i waited 10 month for money (1300€) and i take 80% because i need money and didn't want to wait longer... some lady crossed my main road and i rip of her back bumper on her ford focus.
first month they offer me 50% ??? i refuse, then in next month they offer me 60%... then i call them wtf are they thinking? insurance guy said that laidy is not "FEELING" guilty and will not pay more... wtf? since when is this working on feelings and not in facts? he also said because i hit her on back bumper that's my fault... so i had to hit her in passenger door (where her mother was) and child behind... and then will all be ok. also my speed was enormous in daewoo matiz 0.7 (61hp)
i hate this system... if i killed somebody then i will get all money and all will be ok, because i properly hit her (not trying to avoid accident) when she crossed my road.
first month they offer me 50% ??? i refuse, then in next month they offer me 60%... then i call them wtf are they thinking? insurance guy said that laidy is not "FEELING" guilty and will not pay more... wtf? since when is this working on feelings and not in facts? he also said because i hit her on back bumper that's my fault... so i had to hit her in passenger door (where her mother was) and child behind... and then will all be ok. also my speed was enormous in daewoo matiz 0.7 (61hp)
i hate this system... if i killed somebody then i will get all money and all will be ok, because i properly hit her (not trying to avoid accident) when she crossed my road.
For information, MORE THAN insurance will not cover paint damage by broken glass under the £60 glass excess. A separate claim is required.
Am now remaming our 'B' "Spotty Chippy" until we sort out the paint work ourselves.
Spotty Chippy wishes all her fellow 'B's and owner all the seasons greetings!
