Punto (Mk1) My exploit yellow 75 elx

[simon_16vpunto]

I have no idea bud. I know this is a non interference fire engine, but unsure if the 1.4 is related

 

[puntofan01]

The understanding I have is that the engine originally started off in 750 and 1000cc forms in the 80s Panda, and then went on to spawn the 1108cc, all the 8 and 16v 1242cc and then all the 1368cc variants over the years. Like I say, I'm just curious as to how much was shared between all the 8v Punto engines. (Not including the 1.6 '90')

 

[AndyRKett]

The basic engine block is largely the same, it has been tweaked and fettled over the years, but there is very little the same between a 1990s 16v engine and a 2007 8v engine, the biggest and most obvious difference is a completely different cylinder head. Your 8v is not a non interference if I remember correctly, neither is the later 16v but they won’t share the same pistons and Conrods maybe the crank is the same? Most of the similarities will be outside the engine with things like pipes and mounting brackets, but realistically there is very little that’s the same.

Think of it like a car “platform” they make the Punto grande on the same platform as the 500x but while a lot of measurements between one thing and a other might be the same, the overall car is completely different.

 

[simon_16vpunto]

The older fiat mastertechs in my work have told me the 1.2 mpi 75 is a non interference engine, but say a new 1.2 500 is an interference unit

 

[Didge3]

The older fiat mastertechs in my work have told me the 1.2 mpi 75 is a non interference engine, but say a new 1.2 500 is an interference unit

From about 2005ish, iirc, the 1.2 & 1.4 8v got some basic form of VVT to help emissions, making them an interference engine.

 

[puntofan01]

I see! At what rpm does the VVT kick in, out of interest?

 

[simon_16vpunto]

Thought I’d try out one of they window etching kits.
This used to be common in the 1990’s- supposedly when car crime was high and I remember my mums new punto having this done by the garage before delivery when it was new in 1995. Simple enough- assuming the stuff you put on the glass is pretty nasty stuff....

 

[Didge3]

I see! At what rpm does the VVT kick in, out of interest?

It's not comparable to Honda VTEC or Toyota's VVT-i, it doesn't really 'kick in' as its for emissions control rather than power gains, my basic knowledge is that it will hold the exhaust valves closed longer under certain conditions to help burn off any leftover fuel.

 

[puntofan01]

I see! So it's more a case of strangling the engine at low revs, rather than letting it scream at high speeds, lol?

 

[StevenRB45]

This is a long time ago...so I could be a bit wrong.

But back when I had mk1s seem there being no VVT at all and the 8v ones were none interference.

60 8v single cam and single point fuel injection.
75 8v same as 60s but bigger cam and multipoint fuel injection.
85 16v head, and MPI (interference engine).

Oddly the 55s was a different engine..(same engine as Cinq sporting),I had a 55s and an 85 Elx

 

[andydiver]

Look Honda VVT up, it is variable valve timing in order to allow optimal valve opening at low revs for power, self adjusting through the rev range to provide optimal valve timing at high revs too, where the valves need to be open relatively longer in the cycles to let much more gas move about.
So it is done to offer optimum no lag power delivery (no turbo) across the range of revs. It works well, my sister had a classic Honda Civic VVTi, a light nimble and fun car back then, brilliant.
Optimal valve timing and power will always improve emissions and efficiency as a virtuous side effect, this design was before the focus on emissions as such.

 

[Didge3]

This is a long time ago...so I could be a bit wrong.

But back when I had mk1s seem there being no VVT at all and the 8v ones were none interference.

60 8v single cam and single point fuel injection.
75 8v same as 60s but bigger cam and multipoint fuel injection.
85 16v head, and MPI (interference engine).

Oddly the 55s was a different engine..(same engine as Cinq sporting),I had a 55s and an 85 Elx

Yes there wasn't any VVT on any of the mk1 Punto engines, neither on the 8v engines in the mk2, the 16v engines may have had vvt in mk2's I'm not sure. The Grande is where the 8v engines saw the basic VVT come in making them (8v specifically) interference engines for the first time.

Sorry we're quite off topic now!

 

[blu73]

The starjet is what your thinking of. I won't go into massive detail as you can google it and we are way off topic.
But the starjet engine was available from about 2005 and has port deactivation, VVT and an EGR, all things the FIRE never had. It was the platform on which the t-jet engines were based. But not all Fires have it after 2005; my 2009 Panda 100hp has a 1.4 16v Fire without any of that stuff.
So Starjet engines are interference, other than that all 8v fires are non interference and all 16v engines are interference.

 

[puntofan01]

Out of interest, what was the 1.4 turbo that was used in the mk1 Punto GT?

 

[StevenRB45]

Out of interest, what was the 1.4 turbo that was used in the mk1 Punto GT?

Mk1 Punto effectively spanned 2 different engine generations 1108cc and 1242 were FIRE. The 1.4t was the 1372cc lampredi designed engine from the mk2 uno turbo.

It was old as the hills even in 94, there was also briefly a lampredi 1.6 none turbo in the Elx/Sporting but the fact it was replaced with a 1.2 16v and lost no speed that you'd notice is probably all you need to know.

 

[blu73]

Mk1 Punto effectively spanned 2 different engine generations 1108cc and 1242 were FIRE. The 1.4t was the 1372cc lampredi designed engine from the mk2 uno turbo.

It was old as the hills even in 94, there was also briefly a lampredi 1.6 none turbo in the Elx/Sporting but the fact it was replaced with a 1.2 16v and lost no speed that you'd notice is probably all you need to know.

Weighs about the same as a hill too, a big hill! lol

 

[Didge3]

It was old as the hills even in 94, there was also briefly a lampredi 1.6 none turbo in the Elx/Sporting but the fact it was replaced with a 1.2 16v and lost no speed that you'd notice is probably all you need to know.

I had a Mk1 1581cc Punto Cabrio, it may have had an equal 0-60 as the 16v but the mid-range torque made it an easier drive than the 16v, especially when it came to the flabby Convertibles. It was about as sophisticated as a brick wall and was crap on petrol but I did ultimately prefer it to the 1.2 16v, unpopular opinion around here!

 

[StevenRB45]

I had a Mk1 1581cc Punto Cabrio, it may have had an equal 0-60 as the 16v but the mid-range torque made it an easier drive than the 16v, especially when it came to the flabby Convertibles. It was about as sophisticated as a brick wall and was crap on petrol but I did ultimately prefer it to the 1.2 16v, unpopular opinion around here!

By the time I'd started shopping for my ELX all the 1.6s were either tatty, dead or cabrios so never actually drove one tbf.

1.2 16v in a 5 door shell was rare enough, sold 800 or so in total there's fewer than 50 now.

They were ferociously expensive though mine had the original bill of sale and the original owner was a dealers wife so it had every option. It was 13k in 98, otherwise known as 23k now!

This is probably why the 75 elx like Simons were more common!

 

[blu73]

i have no quarms with the old lampredi engines really, good strong engines, my only issue with them is they weigh same as a small planet, which you can really feel entering corners at any kind of speed in something so small and light as a mk1 punto.
That said, a 75 is only 23kg heavier than a 90 :shrug: although my experience of them is with the GT and with the turbo and associated gubbins they are 81kg heaver than a 75 and thats pretty significant on a car under a tonne.

 

[Didge3]

Try cornering fast in a Cabrio, its a bit of a wobbly mess to say the least! The best part about the mk1's was definitely the more communicative hydraulic P/S