Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

[widemouthfrog]

If you can, send the National clutch kit back and get a refund. You should be able to if it was bought on line (distance selling etc). As your mechanic friend said, it's always best to match clutch & DMF where possible. The price difference between what you paid for the National and the LUK one from buypartsby is so small it's not worth taking the chance. If you get the clutch at the same time as the DMF, delivery won't cost any extra either.

The price for the bolts from carparts4less includes delivery, I believe (as is true for all their prices).

 

[boilermansab]

Or see if carparts4less will price match saf

 

[MarkX]

Hello again folks,

It's my 3rd weekend working on the Multipla clutch, and it nearly ended in disaaaaaster darling !

The day started badly as I started working on the car, my car and house keys fell out of a pocket into a drain. Luckily they landed on a shelf about 30cm under the drain water. Not a good omen.

Next, I was in the process of jacking the car up higher, I think Notes for Novices suggested 40cm of clearance to get the clutch out, the car's been sitting 30cm up on a single NS axle stand under a thick metal beam near the jacking point all week no problem. I thought I would get the OS front sitting on another axle stand then jack up the NS a further 10cm to get the required clearance. Well I did the first bit and then started jacking up the NS, when the whole bl**dy car lurched forward to the NS and toppled off the stands and jack and onto the NS hub/brake disk. Made a nice dent in the paving stone. Luckily I wasn't underneath at the time, but it was a shock. I had to sit down quietly for a bit to calm down.

You may recall me saying that the car is on a normal street with quite a camber, with the NS/gutter being about 15cm/20cm lower than the road under the offside wheels. The NS front wheel/hub which was parked parallel to and in the gutter is now 15cm onto the pavement. Incidently the front brake disks look past their sell-by date - need replacing anyway - so I'm not worried about any damage resulting from the above.

I am considering now whether it's safe to continue with the clutch replacement. It's bugging the hell out of me because I've invested a lot of time and money - about £90 in tools alone - in doing it myself, would really like to do it, but if I can't create a safe working environment...? What if I'd been under the car at the time... ! A local garage has quoted me £270 labour only to do the clutch replacement including tow to the garage, not sure if that includes flywheel replacement, but it's not really about the money...

I haven't passed the point of no return yet -the driveshafts, gearbox mounts etc. are still in place, so the car's still towable.

Is there a relative safe way of raising/supporting my car on such unlevel ground? I have also invested in a second pair of (Halfords) 3T axle stands.

Any thoughts/suggestions from you guys would be welcome.

Mark X

 

[widemouthfrog]

Difficult to say without seeing photos and bearing in mind it must be safe no matter what you do. Have you shifted the car over so that the 2 NS wheels are on the pavement? That will reduce the effect of the strong camber and still give you maximum clearance if you have the gearbox over the 'gutter'. Make sure you have both rear wheels very well chocked behind and in front. That will help stop the car moving around. Don't just rely on the handbrake.

If the road camber is strong, don't use the axle stands. Their footprint won't be sufficient to stop the car moving sideways (as you've found). Can you beg or borrow a pair of wheel ramps? Cap those with some old bits of scaffold plank and beach the sills on those. It will be much more stable.

 

[Ben skinner]

Safest way is obviously level ground
But as widemouthfrog has said try to solidly support the cills on something
If you have spare wheels kicking about (not just tyres) they create a good solid base coupled with scaffold board
And rear wheel chocks
Above all if it doesn't look safe it isn't
I read about a guy working on a Sierra cosworth who had the car on vertical breeze blocks he unfortunately isn't with us anymore
If you can't get in the car when it's supported and shuffle about without the car moving then please don't risk it
When doing mine ( on a flat surface) I had 3 trolley jacks two axle stands and ramps (the ramps were just a back up and I didn't use them)
Above all don't risk it please
There's a lot to be said for home repairs as long as it's done safely

 

[MarkX]

Sound advice. Thanks chaps.

>>>Have you shifted the car over so that the 2 NS wheels are on the pavement?
Only front NS wheel on pavement (when the car lurched forward), could get help to get the rear wheel on as well maybe... Problem is I only have the weekends to work on car, I am at the quiet end of the street, but local cops are quick to act on illegally-parked cars. Car will be parked until next w/e at least.

>>>Make sure you have both rear wheels very well chocked behind and in front.
Have plenty of timber so I could easily knock up chock devices =O=.

>>>Safest way is obviously level ground
Yep. Had perfect flat places to work on car in the past.

Incidently, I'm impressed with the Fiat supplied scissor jack. Good solid piece of kit. Just after I stopped work Today, the neighbour's cat got stuck under the engine of their car (French car with fat rear end -forget the name). Their jack was pathetic in comparison. Helped them rescue the cat by helping them remove the front wheel. They said they would have called the fire brigade if I hadn't helped. Nice to put one's experience/skills to use. 4 x Fosters cans reward -result!

Scary experience Today. My instincts, informed also by other potentially dangerous hobbies, told me the situation is NOT safe. Pity because the actual procedure described by the Fiat Forumers looks within my capabilities/experience.

 

[widemouthfrog]

Sounds as though your biggest problem is having to leave the car in whatever-state-of-disassembly-you-get-to-Sunday-evening in just that state until the following weekend.

What lifting/propping kit have you got available?

 

[MarkX]

Lifting gear:

- 2 ton trolley jack
- Fiat scissor jack that came with car

Also:

- 2 x 2 ton axle stands
- 2 x 3 ton axle stands
- Some 5/8in thick planks/shelves
- Long piece of 2 x 3 as bellhousing support beam
- 6 house bricks

 

[Ben skinner]

Picts didn't work for me
Just loads of letters and numbers

 

[MarkX]

Yep sorry about that. Used the wrong method to upload pics. Try again...

 

[MarkX]

Third pic showing road camber...

 

[MarkX]

Not much downslope but with both front wheels off and front end jacked up, there's only the OS rear wheel in contact with the ground to stop the car moving forward or back.

With this arrangement on uneven ground I don't see how you can guarantee the car won't move, and with me underneath that would probably be curtains...

Just getting the axle stands -and jacks- level is a problem.

Clutch replacement procedure doesn't seem safe to me unless you do it on level ground...

What say you?

 

[Ben skinner]

Bricks under n/s rear tyre
Boards under car o/s to n/s
Road to pavement
Shim underneath boards where axle stands are going
Axle stands at front
Fiat jack under sump with block of wood on it
Use trolley jack to aid gearbox removal

Using trolley jack first to get car up high enough
Try that and see how secure it feels

 

[MarkX]

Cheers Ben. Sounds like a plan.

Bricks under n/s rear tyre
...etc.
...etc.
Using trolley jack first to get car up high enough
Try that and see how secure it feels

OK ...so level the back of the car NS to OS... and chock rear tyres to prevent back or forward movement.

Where would you suggest I position the trolley jack to get car high enough at the front? What's the best spot?

Mark

 

[Ben skinner]

I'd be jacking up the subframe at its furthest from the front point so the axle stands can go just behind where you jack on the 2 longitudinal chassis rails
That way the stands are out of the way when you drop front subframe

 

[MarkX]

I'd be jacking up the subframe at its furthest from the front point so the axle stands can go just behind where you jack on the 2 longitudinal chassis rails
That way the stands are out of the way when you drop front subframe

OK thx Ben.

I'm hoping with the extra clearance on the NS due to road camber I might get away with NOT dropping the subframe. Also Notes for Novices mentions removing the long bellhousing stud prior to removal of the bellhousing so you don't need as much clearance. Worth a try.

Need to get some chunky, scaffolder-type boards, maybe from work or Homebase tomoz.

BFN.

 

[Ben skinner]

I personally found that the back of box wouldn't come out due to subframe being in the way
But by all means give it a go
As for scaffold board maybe worth asking on a building site if there's one nearby for a 5-6ft long bit it'll be cheaper
All the extra clearance is good but I never removed the stud

 

[MarkX]

Ta. Will update on how things go. Or not!

Mark

 

[MultiplaAbarth]

I removed the long stud as in notes for novices, it actually came out ok, does help a lot, I didnt drop subframe myself, or take the gearbox out, just shifted the gearbox out of the way enough for me to access/remove/replace the clutch housing and bearing. Used a trolley jack under gearbox to move, as well as lying underneath with a chock of wood on my chest to move the box about.
Tried to take box out but give up, no need I suppose in my case, but may have come out ok if I 'd removed intercooler, ie slip out sideways...
If it gets too much, just get a mobile mechanic to do the last bit, if its not too expensive may charge £40 but save a lot of grief...Not an easy job in my book..

 

[MarkX]

I removed the long stud as in notes for novices, it actually came out ok, does help a lot, I didnt drop subframe myself, or take the gearbox out, just shifted the gearbox out of the way enough for me to access/remove/replace the clutch housing and bearing. Used a trolley jack under gearbox to move, as well as lying underneath with a chock of wood on my chest to move the box about.
Tried to take box out but give up, no need I suppose in my case, but may have come out ok if I 'd removed intercooler, ie slip out sideways...
If it gets too much, just get a mobile mechanic to do the last bit, if its not too expensive may charge £40 but save a lot of grief...Not an easy job in my book..

Cheers MultiplaAbarth. You've given me a couple of alternate plans: a) Move gearbox out of way just enough to replace clutch and release bearing, and or: b) Remove intercooler.

Love the chock of wood on chest to move box about! -the main thing I'm concerned about is NOT having to use my chest to move the WHOLE CAR about - or NOT as the case may be. Arnie I am not. If there is no follow up to this thread, please send donations to The Royal Society For the Prevention of Accidents (ROSPA). Alternatively send donations to The Fiat Forum (VS My Estate). ;-) or :-(

I've contacted local scaffolding firm to price some scaffolding boards -very reasonable... to make jacked up car safe. Unfortunately the boards are only 22.5 (9in) wide. My 3T Halfords axle stands have a 25cm footprint so need a 30cm board/plank to be stable. Staple 2 boards together maybe?

Going to get some help to get NS back wheel onto pavement (USA translation: sidewalk) as well as NS front wheel to reduce the effect of road camber. Thanks previous responder for this advice.

Mark X