Technical Kangaroo-ing Sedici

[Polls]

Hi people, I wonder if you can help out with my 1.9JTD (fitted to a Sedici)
When the car is is the rev range 1500-2000 and particularly going uphill the car kangaroos. If it was a petrol engine you'd say it was a mis-fire. It's like somone is turning either the fuel or the electrics constantly on and off. It doesn't happen all the time, sometimes I take it out and it runs perfectly, other times and I'm shaken to bits. My local garage is being helpful (I've had DPF problems in the past - another LOOONG story), they've put the diagnostics on and it was saying "clutch depressed" when nowhere near the clutch. They've replaced the clutch switch thinking it might be the source of my problems but it's still exactly the same. The car runs fine at idle, it's just when it's moving.
Another thought, when I got the car back after having the work on the DPF done, there was a bolt missing that holds the 2 parts of the exhaust together. Could a slight leak on the exhaust cause the problems I am having?
Any ideas anyone?

 

[cmm.sedici]

Hiya, i'm not sure what this could be, but I get a similar thing around 1800 rpm, mainly in the summer where it hiccups slightly. I'm not sure if this is to do with the alternator, engine management, mapping or the turbo kicking in on the diesel engine.

Hope you have some luck finding out what's up with yours.

 

[volvo_saint]

After I disabled the EGR valve the flat spot at 1800RPM disappears....

I would check the EGR valve is functioning correctly.

 

[cmm.sedici]

Hi volvo_saint, what was the idea behind removing the EGR valve? Doesn't this affect the emissions, power and lifespan of the engine?!

 

[volvo_saint]

After I removed the DPF unit I noticed two things:

a) Lot of black smoke coming from exhaust during heavy acceleration

b)the flat spot at 1800RPM was still there.....

The EGR valve diverts exhaust back into the manifold for emission reasons but when you think that this black soot is recycled through the engine is does make you think a bit....after all you are substituting oxygen required for the combustion process with spent gases....

I blanked off the EGR unit and the black smoke disappeared; the flat spot disappeared at 1800RPM and the fuel consumption has decreased....

Removing the EGR valve is probably one of the more useful things you can do to your engine.

 

[cmm.sedici]

Fair enough, what happens when it's MOT time?! Think i'll leave mine in for now. There's the possibility of giving it a clean though. Was it easy to get to?

 

[tinytim]

EGR valve not tested for MOT
Its purpose is to reduce the amount of oxygen in the cylinders to reduce combustion temperature and reduce Nitrogen Oxide formation (this is irrelevant in most of the Uk and in any case tons of Nitrogen Oxides are formed in every thunderstorm) but it: reduces engine power, worsens mpg, allows soot into the inlet manifold that can partially block it and it can stick and set off fault code and force engine into limp mode....
If you just disconnect it the ECU will report a fault code. When I dismantled the EGR plumbing on my 1.9 JTD Marea there were masses of soot in the inlet manifold and around the butterfly valve. I cleaned all this up and put a stainless steel plate between the EGR and the pipe going to the inlet manifold but left the EGR electrically connected (I also disconnected the control to the butterfly valve so it was permanently open as no need for this in a diesel engine); 3 years and no further problems
Result: more power, MPG improved by 6-7 %, no flatspots
easy enough to do...

 

[cmm.sedici]

So it doesn't affect the emissions testing?

Does anyone fancy doing a 'how-to'? I think i'd get lost very quickly doing something like this. Fitting a 12v, no problem, but messing about with the business end of the car is a different matter!

 

[fronteratech]

All answers here
http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/DPFoff.aspx

 

[tinytim]

DPF and EGR are completely different
the DPF (diesel pariculate filter ) collects DEPs (diesel exhaust particles) from the exhaust (these are carcinogenic as well as polluting); when the car has warmed up (at least 10 miles) neat diesel is injected into the exhaust to burn off the DEPs. However if the car is used for only short journeys this burning proces never happens and the filter clogs up; worse neat diesel can then get into the engine oil and then the cylinders where it can ignite and you have a runaway self-destructing engine....

Please see my other posts for details on blocking off the EGR valve or pm me....

 

[Polls]

I've had SO many problems with my Sedici. I've had it a year and it's spent more time in the garage than on the road.... where to begin:
First it wouldn't run, it really became an embarassment smoking and struggling up the slightest incline. My local garage have been wonderful all throughout this whole fiasco.
1. They realised it was the DPF causing the problem and on enquiry to Fiat they were quoted £2500 for a new one! so they cleaned the old one up for me and their computer told them that the air mass meter was at fault too so they changed that. It ran ok for a short while then got the symptoms back again.
2. They had a new DPF made for me. Now the car ran fine but the kangarooing started.
3. They blanked off the EGR. Ran fine but now yellow light on premanantly (due to the blanking)
4. They changed the EGR valve for a new one. Kangarooing back.
5. As mentioned before they changed the clutch switch. No change.
6. Blanked off the EGR again and it ran perfectly
7. Fitted a different EGR valve. This time direct from Peirburg. Kangarooing back again
So now I'm running around with a blanked off EGR. It's going well but because the yellow warning light is constantly on, if there ever was a problem of a different nature I wouldn't know. Also, what's wrong with the EGR valves that it causes the car to kangaroo? My wonderful mechanic did a little demo where he blocked off one of the side ports to the valve by pressing hard on it with a latex glove on and sucked on the forward facing hole. He said that to his way of thinking there shouldn't be any air bypassing the valve but he couldn't get a complete vacuum on sucking, there was always a slight bleed through the solenoid and he didn't think this was right. He contacted Pierburg directly and they sent him a replacement but this one also let a small amount of air through. He thinks this is the problem and has effectively proven his point by blanking off the EGR with a plate and getting it to run well.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Could it be the ECU that's causing the problem by causing the engine to react to the condition of the EGR adversly?
I used to drive a Suzuki Ignis never a thing went wrong with it but it was getting old and the Suzuki garage talked me into the Suzuki SX4. I found the Fiat equivalent at a good price. I thought with the Suzuki reliability and the proven Fiat multijet engine I was on a fairly safe bet! I'm so fed up I'd love to trade in this car for something else but unless I can get it to run without the yellow light I'm stuck with it. If I had my way I'd disable the yellow light and take it in for part exchange and if they picked it up later swear innocence, but my hubby's too honest and won't let me do it

 

[vucko]

i have a same problem, any new ideas what to do to fix it, thanks!

 

[fronteratech]

read codes post on here could be a simple fix

 

[tinytim]

Obviously it is the EGR valve causing the problem; blanking it off has cured it but the EGR valve MUST remain elctrically connected or the ECU will read a fault code; make sure the connections are OK and then clear the code.
DPF's will always cause problems unless the car frequently does long journeys; if vehicle is only or mostly used for short trips then a diesel engine is not suitable.
In addition to my Marea 1.9JTD (see above and other posts) I have had a 1.6 Petrol Sedici for 18 months (bought new from Fiat Direct when 2 years old! for £7500) and done 14,000 miles returning around 40mpg with no problems.

 

[vucko]

i add miller fuel aditive (found on alfa forums) and after 50 - 60 kilometers engine starts work normally - no more kangarooing
Thanks!

 

[fronteratech]

i add miller fuel aditive (found on alfa forums) and after 50 - 60 kilometers engine starts work normally - no more kangarooing
Thanks!

that would indicate bad diesel changing fuel filter also works

 

[Polls]

Further to my earlier posts the thick plottens: Having been running around with the EGR blocked off for a month or so the darned car is now having spates of smoking again - blue/grey smoke usually after about 10 miles of driving once I get into traffic.
Can anyone tell me what sort of code reader/warning light canceller is the best to get? As we have an Alfa, Ford, Citroen as well as my Sedici could the code reader be used on all the cars? Do you need different adapter leads for it? Really pulling my hair out with this car thinking of trading it in for whatever pittance I can get for it.

 

[robotdancer]

Tiny tim talks a lot off sense, any chance of a ouple of pics as to which electrics you disconnected to isolate the butterfly valve?

Cheers

 

[chumbamoo]

Hello,

Am posting the following reply to all similar Sedici threads after having a similar problem and finding a possible fault and cheap fix...

Could try replacing your fuel filter....

Purchased a second hand, 55,000 mile, 56 plate Sedici with the 1.9 Multijet engine that suffered hesitating at just below 1900 rpm and poor pickup from a stand still.... took this as turbo lag after reading similar threads and suggestions about the EGR being the problem. (checked mine and noted a brand new one fitted). Previous owner obviously had the same problem then gave up and part exchanged the car.

A week after buying the car it broke down! It started and idled rough but then shut down by engine management safe mode. Garage recovered and traced fault to an injector. Thank god for the warranty! Injector was replaced and car performed like new. Couldnt understand why an injector should fail after 55,000 miles!!! Few miles later the hesitating slowly returned!
Decided to change fuel filter by myself.... Bingo... old filter cartridge was made from a fabric material. Have replaced with a 'Fram' paper aftermarket type for £10.
Think it had been shedding strands of fibres and sending them to the injectors and clogging them! (have binned the old filter but think it was made by 'Blue' filters... when i ran my fingernail over the surface, fibres would loosen and detach!)
Cars service history shows filter was replaced previously at approx 30,000 miles by main garage!!!
Could also be fuel starvation due to the filter being clogged??
Dont know if main garages are fitting cheaper aftermarket 'Blue' filters or if they are fitted from new? Just glad the filter is in the bin where it belongs. Having done it myself I know for sure.
Hesitating is cured. Car has stopped kangarooing and pulls away without the need for high revs. Hope this helps to all.
Please post reply to possibly help other Sedici, SX4 and Multijet users.