Technical how to remove injector rail

[wpisme823]

Hi all once again!!


Im currently trying to replace a broken injector on my punto mk1 16v 85 and ive got everything unscrewed and off according to the haynes manual but the injector rail seems to be stuck in the manifold. Its very wobbly but i dare not apply to much force to pull them out.


Is there anything im missing??

cheers

 

[wpisme823]

(the haynes manual is a bit cryptic in just saying "pull the rail out gently" )

 

[fingers99]

There are metal clips on the injectors. Make sure those are out!

 

[wpisme823]

cheers! got them out eventually after taking the clips off.

Now the car is hardly even firing at all!! very confused

 

[fingers99]

More details please!

 

[wpisme823]

Sorry, yeh the car wont start at all theres the odd spark every now and again but its just turning over as if theres no fuel. the plugs are a bit wet though and are all sparking fine. also topped up with some petrol as it was low.

Could it be an airlock? how would i remove it?

cheers.

 

[s and b]

if its cranking and you only have a random spark then its usually a problem in the crank sensor pickup associated wiring ecu or coils or leads
of course you would need to confirm it is indeed random sparking due to one of these issues
i see you have removed the injectors but to be honest whenever ive tried doing this on cars with a few years on them it always goes t*ts up ,personally i would just fit a rail or indeed the manifold with injectors in if you have a problem
what does a compression test tell you about the state of the engine? does it hold good compressions

 

[wpisme823]

all the plugs are sparking fine. but it does seem to just fire at random intervals when turning the engine over, but never fully get going. The cylinder which i replaced the injector on is now soaking the plug with petrol so that problem is solved at least!

I dont currently have access to a compression tester. (and dont have the funds to get one at the moment!)
But there is no sign of the head gasket being blown. No water in oil or coolant loss etcc...

If its the TDC sensor, is it possible to check the condition of it with a multimeter?

Or
Could it be a timing issue? and if so, how would i check if the belts slipped as i cant find any timing marks.

Its been over a month of trying to solve this problem and its starting to get a bit stupid lol.

Cheers

 

[wpisme823]

before i changed the injector, the plugs on cylinders 1,2 and 3 were black with number 4 being clean. just been trying to fire the car today and plug 4 is now black. so the injector change has definetly cured something at least!

Theres still no sign of water loss or water in the oil or leaking from the head..

thanks for any advice

 

[m20b25]

Firing problems?

Engines flooded. Sounds silly but thats whats happened if your getting fuel and a decent spark, its happened many times here! These engines are a curse to start in that condition... Leave the plugs out, dry out the cylinders overnight. Try again in the morning

 

[wpisme823]

cheers just popped them all out and gonna leave it to dry tonight. fingers crossed!!

 

[Brin]

cheers just popped them all out and gonna leave it to dry tonight. fingers crossed!!

change the spark plugs for new ones!! i found as doing so at work once you have flooded the engine the spark plugs seem to go quite sh*t even after drying cleaning and warming up, just try a brand new set on plugs and should fire, otherwise maybe timing out?? had head done recently??

 

[fingers99]

If you're getting a spark it won't be the TDC sensor. I'd be inclined to try new plugs -- sometimes they simply won't recover after a soaking.

 

[wpisme823]

just tried new plugs now and still having the same problem. when i turn the car over you can tell something is firing but it just coughs and dies after i stop the starter motor.

ive also just tried wd40 all over the electrics with the same result. Not sure where to go now other than a compression test im guessing??

any other ideas?


its nearly taken a month to get this fiat going!!! lol

 

[wpisme823]

change the spark plugs for new ones!! i found as doing so at work once you have flooded the engine the spark plugs seem to go quite sh*t even after drying cleaning and warming up, just try a brand new set on plugs and should fire, otherwise maybe timing out?? had head done recently??

Also i havnt had the head done recently but i only bought the car recently dirt cheap with a misfire that has since developed into the car not starting at all.

Ive got a bad feeling it must be the gasket but theres none of the obvious signs in the oil etc.

Whats the best method to check timing on 16vs?

 

[Brin]

Also i havnt had the head done recently but i only bought the car recently dirt cheap with a misfire that has since developed into the car not starting at all.

Ive got a bad feeling it must be the gasket but theres none of the obvious signs in the oil etc.

Whats the best method to check timing on 16vs?

errrm time it up piston number one a TDC and check all the timing marks

iv never done a 16v so dont know the marks look in a haynes manual mate

 

[wpisme823]

cheers for the advice mate. found out about timing from the haynes. you need to set it at TDC on 1 an 2 and then use a crank shaft locking tool to lock the cams.

They lock into a divot in the cam which lines up with the hole on side of the head extension when at TDC.

I dont know if this sounds silly as im relatively in experienced with car engines (more used to small motorbikes)
If the timing is say a tooth off is it going to be possible to just disengage the timing belt from the cam and move it forward/backward so its correct or will i need to lock the pulleys in place?

if that makes sense??

 

[Brin]

cheers for the advice mate. found out about timing from the haynes. you need to set it at TDC on 1 an 2 and then use a crank shaft locking tool to lock the cams.

They lock into a divot in the cam which lines up with the hole on side of the head extension when at TDC.

I dont know if this sounds silly as im relatively in experienced with car engines (more used to small motorbikes)
If the timing is say a tooth off is it going to be possible to just disengage the timing belt from the cam and move it forward/backward so its correct or will i need to lock the pulleys in place?

if that makes sense??

sorry but i dont get what you mean mate, best way is to find the timing marks normally dots or lines that meet up to show it is in its correct position, then just make sure that both cams and the crank pulleys are all on there timing marks, i wouldnt bother to lock pulleys yet just do a visual check to see it all lines up, if you find that one pulley the mark isnt lining up then uyou need to lock the pulleys and remove the belt

 

[DaveMcT]

Google search "Fiat Punto 16V timing".

[ame="http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&gcx=c&ix=c2&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fiat+Punto+16V+timing"]Fiat Punto 16V timing - Google Search[/ame]

How hard can it be?

the HGT (1746cc) is timed at TDC on #1 with the cams locked by special tools. The 1.2 16V is I believe timed at 50% stroke on 1 & 4. IIRC its piston rising but you need to confirm. If you do it wrong the engine will backfire into the inlet and crack the manifold.

The Haynes should explain all that properly, but they do have a habit of crappy writing when you need it most.

Compression testers by the way are from £15 on ebay. It might simply be a blown head gasket.

 

[wpisme823]

thanks mate. yeah ive got my haynes PDF all sorted now. Going to check the timing tomorrow and if not then i think its time to buy a tester and check the compression, as ive checked every other possibility at least 3 times now lol.


Thanks for all the advice

will report back soon with results