Technical Help with D+ wiring 2017 Boxer Ducato 2.0 HDi

[GWO110]

Hi, I'm really hoping someone can help. I need a D+ signal, either a +12v or D+ to ground. It's a 2017 Boxer/Ducato 2.0 BlueHDi. I've been searching for days on end online and I've purchased downloaded manuals but still no success. The van does not have the converters sockets in the B-pillar. I read that it's the brown/green wire from pin 25 on the 52 pin lower right connector on the Body Control Module / Dash fuse box. That must have been an earlier model as my connector plug has 60 pins and no brown/green. I read that it's the brown/black wire from the BCM in the Converters manual and I've spliced into three brown/black wires with no success. Can anyone help or has anyone got the pinouts for the 60 pin connector from the BCM/Dash fuse box.

 

[merovingian]

Hi, I'm really hoping someone can help. I need a D+ signal, either a +12v or D+ to ground. It's a 2017 Boxer/Ducato 2.0 BlueHDi. I've been searching for days on end online and I've purchased downloaded manuals but still no success. The van does not have the converters sockets in the B-pillar. I read that it's the brown/green wire from pin 25 on the 52 pin lower right connector on the Body Control Module / Dash fuse box. That must have been an earlier model as my connector plug has 60 pins and no brown/green. I read that it's the brown/black wire from the BCM in the Converters manual and I've spliced into three brown/black wires with no success. Can anyone help or has anyone got the pinouts for the 60 pin connector from the BCM/Dash fuse box.

Have you got a motorhome? I picked it up from the back of the fridge, open the bunch of cables and its in amongst them, hope it applies

 

[GWO110]

Have you got a motorhome? I picked it up from the back of the fridge, open the bunch of cables and its in amongst them, hope it applies

Hi, thanks but I'm building from scratch.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi GWO110

Firstly, I am going to assume that your alternator is not part of a "smart alternator" setup, I believe this started coming in around 2017 for vehicles with start/stop.

Wiring data on the more recent vans is harder to come by than for the older ones. You might have to resort to tapping onto the D+ on the back of the alternator, even though it's then a fag to get a wire through the bulkhead or floor to where it's needed in the habitation space.

At risk of stating the obvious, the D+ will be the smaller (or one of the smaller) terminals, i.e. not the main output with the fat wire on it. Make sure your added wiring is fused at the alternator end and well insulated/anchored. I don't know how much current you can safely draw, but a relay coil or its equivalent should be a light enough load.

 

[theoneandonly]

is this relevant.

 

[Reg 65]

Fiat gives the maximum current to be taken from the D+ terminal as 300ma.
I put a meter on my 500A relay and found it used 740ma
So I got a standard 200amp relay off ebay (£6.50 posted from China)

New Ducato Stop Start Alternator | FIAT Motorhomes / Campervans

Update: Well I have been running it a month - latest Ducato Euro 6 with 'intelligent' alternator, charging 2 secondary batteries (one a starter battery one a leisure battery) Both secondary batteries are 5 years old and were previously used as the secondary batteries in my old X2/50. Connected...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[GWO110]

Hi GWO110

Firstly, I am going to assume that your alternator is not part of a "smart alternator" setup, I believe this started coming in around 2017 for vehicles with start/stop.

Wiring data on the more recent vans is harder to come by than for the older ones. You might have to resort to tapping onto the D+ on the back of the alternator, even though it's then a fag to get a wire through the bulkhead or floor to where it's needed in the habitation space.

At risk of stating the obvious, the D+ will be the smaller (or one of the smaller) terminals, i.e. not the main output with the fat wire on it. Make sure your added wiring is fused at the alternator end and well insulated/anchored. I don't know how much current you can safely draw, but a relay coil or its equivalent should be a light enough load.

Well I'm assuming it is a smart alternator setup because that's the setup in the limited wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual. The only small wire from the alternator goes directly to the Engine ECU. There will be a simulated D+ in the Body Control computer which will be used for the Converters socket (where fitted) but I can't find which of the 60 pins it's on. You're very correct about to lack of wiring data available for 2017+ models.

 

[GWO110]

Fiat gives the maximum current to be taken from the D+ terminal as 300ma.
I put a meter on my 500A relay and found it used 740ma
So I got a standard 200amp relay off ebay (£6.50 posted from China)

New Ducato Stop Start Alternator | FIAT Motorhomes / Campervans

Update: Well I have been running it a month - latest Ducato Euro 6 with 'intelligent' alternator, charging 2 secondary batteries (one a starter battery one a leisure battery) Both secondary batteries are 5 years old and were previously used as the secondary batteries in my old X2/50. Connected...

www.fiatforum.com

Problem is I can't find a D+ whether it be D+(+ve) or D+(grounded)

 

[GWO110]

is this relevant.

Hi, yes I've used that to provide an ign+ feed but it's not a D+

 

[GWO110]

So this is where I'm at now, see sketched diagram.
This Maypole Tec3m is a VSR (voltage sensing relay normally used for split charging) and it has the trigger level adjustment so it will switch on its output when B1+ (Van) is at 13.3V or whatever I need to tweak it to.
The Battery sensing is direct from B1+ (van), output goes to N/O contacts in a relay triggered by ign+. This therefore connects B1+ to my B2B charger trigger (D+) only when the ignition is ON "AND " the B1 voltage is high.

A N/O relay then turns the B2B (D+) trigger to a D+ Grounded signal for the CBE DS300 module.

A N/C relay triggered by ign+ disconnects B1+ from the DS300 B1+ thereby disabling the DS300 split charging while ignition is on but also retains the mains charging to B1 and retains the DS300 D+ functions.

200W Solar will feed 80% B2 and 20% B1, connected via the DS300 B1+ and B2+ and - ve terminals.

Two L36-EFB batteries now fitted under the drivers seat frame. These are the lowered seat frames for the swivels in case anyone wonders whether 190mm high batteries will fit into these. Clearance is about 10 - 15mm

If anyone can see any potential issues I'd be very pleased to hear as it's now all wired and ready to insert the various fuses to test.

 

[Reg 65]

I can't see how you have got the batteries secured
I got 2 x 019 batteries under each standard single seat base. Sheet of plywood around each side and rear to stop them chafing on the sharp bits of the metal frame (strategically placed holes in plywood for ventilation) sheet of lino on top to insulate the terminals, all held down with luggage straps. When you are putting the seat back on you could easily catch the positive terminals, or something could drop down from the seat mechanism and short them out?
Some people say you need leisure batteries. But I just used standard starter batteries which worked well for over 5 years when I replaced them due to age. Whether or not Leisure batteries would be more efficient I don't know. All I know is the starter batteries were ok for me.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

Just a couple of observations:

It's best if the paralleled batteries have equal cable resistance so as to help balance the current flow between them. OK, I know the resistance of your short cables is very low but so are the internal resistances of the batteries. So rather than having the main connections to one battery, and the other battery "out on a limb" via a couple of links, it would be preferable to take the main connections to the diagonal points, if that makes sense. Then each battery has one link cable and symmetry is preserved.

The batteries should be held down with something that can restrain them in the event of a collision, when the forces could be many times their weight. A bolted metal clamp is fine, a luggage strap would need to be fairly beefy.

 

[GWO110]

I can't see how you have got the batteries secured
I got 2 x 019 batteries under each standard single seat base. Sheet of plywood around each side and rear to stop them chafing on the sharp bits of the metal frame (strategically placed holes in plywood for ventilation) sheet of lino on top to insulate the terminals, all held down with luggage straps. When you are putting the seat back on you could easily catch the positive terminals, or something could drop down from the seat mechanism and short them out?
Some people say you need leisure batteries. But I just used standard starter batteries which worked well for over 5 years when I replaced them due to age. Whether or not Leisure batteries would be more efficient I don't know. All I know is the starter batteries were ok for me.

Hi, there's a battery clamp on the front edge of each battery pulling down at 45 degrees towards the back. The battery clamp hooks go into the bottom of the seat Base. You will see better on this photo

 

[Reg 65]

Ah yes I see now - great photo thanks.
Sorry I can't help with the D+ signal
I did my X2/50 with a viltage sensing relay
Which is no good with my X2/90 'Smart' Alternator
but fortunately it has the converters socket although its not on the spec sheet or been charged for.

 

[Reg 65]

Straps rated at 200kg (about 4 times the combined weight of the batteries), and batteries trapped in on all 4 sides by the seat frame so should be ok.
Also got a sheet of lino over the top held down by the straps - I don't trust myself to lift the seat on without catching the battery terminals and shorting them out. Also if a spring or something falls down on to them.

 

[GWO110]

Hi

Just a couple of observations:

It's best if the paralleled batteries have equal cable resistance so as to help balance the current flow between them. OK, I know the resistance of your short cables is very low but so are the internal resistances of the batteries. So rather than having the main connections to one battery, and the other battery "out on a limb" via a couple of links, it would be preferable to take the main connections to the diagonal points, if that makes sense. Then each battery has one link cable and symmetry is preserved.

The batteries should be held down with something that can restrain them in the event of a collision, when the forces could be many times their weight. A bolted metal clamp is fine, a luggage strap would need to be fairly beefy.

Hi, the earth connection is on the front battery and the power take off is on the rear battery. Is this what you mean.
Bothe batteries are held in place with steel battery clamps.

 

[Fredastaire]

If its a 2017 Ducato , it doesnt have a smart alternator. If its a 2017 ducato (I have one), then there is most of a circuit for a rear cigarette lighter. Mine had all the wiring, the fuse, what was missing from the fuse panel under the left headlight was the relay, its a standard Fiat small relay. I bought a s/h relay from my breakers for £2.00, it just plugs in as all the wiring is there ready; important to use a genuine Fiat relay as it has a protection diode internally to protect the vehicle canbus. passing through the RHS footwell at the step and up the RH B post is a cable run. The yellow is the rear cigarette lighter feed. I used this yellow wire to trigger my VSR for the split charge. VSR bought from PF Jones the towbar people, here again because its a known canbus safe item to add rather than an elcheapo from the local car spares place. Under the passenger seat I have fitted a single Leoch 160 AGM battery on its side, (yes these can go flat down).

 

[GWO110]

If its a 2017 Ducato , it doesnt have a smart alternator. If its a 2017 ducato (I have one), then there is most of a circuit for a rear cigarette lighter. Mine had all the wiring, the fuse, what was missing from the fuse panel under the left headlight was the relay, its a standard Fiat small relay. I bought a s/h relay from my breakers for £2.00, it just plugs in as all the wiring is there ready; important to use a genuine Fiat relay as it has a protection diode internally to protect the vehicle canbus. passing through the RHS footwell at the step and up the RH B post is a cable run. The yellow is the rear cigarette lighter feed. I used this yellow wire to trigger my VSR for the split charge. VSR bought from PF Jones the towbar people, here again because its a known canbus safe item to add rather than an elcheapo from the local car spares place. Under the passenger seat I have fitted a single Leoch 160 AGM battery on its side, (yes these can go flat down).

Hi and thanks for that. Useful to know about the rear cigarette lighter wiring. It would have been easier than the ign+ connection in the dash which I've already done now.

 

[Reg 65]

Well this is all very interesting, but we still seem no nearer to answering the OPs question and finding the D+ signal.